#286: How To Make Money AND Music w/ Tim Jones of Whiskey Wolves of the West
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people podcast songwriter kickstarter music fucking records art play home album big booking spotify plan leroy world money thinking nashville
SPEAKERS
Law Smith
Law Smith
0:05
Got sweat equity podcast streaming show the number one comedy business podcast in the world. Yeah. pragmatic entrepreneurial vice with Deke jokes. We're winner of 2020 best small medium enterprise business advisory podcast in the United States from Lux global excellence awards proudly hosted by books Life magazine. Shut up. Even though your trophy scam, we only won the award. Why do you do that? a trophy because I find Why are you the way you are? I find it funny. But I will bring the optimism with our guest Tim Jones with the whiskey wolves of the West and his new vinyl out new albums out on Spotify right now. But before we get into that, let's get into our sponsor ExpressVPN expressvpn.com forward slash What? gets it three months free off an annual plan. Virtual Private Network. A computer in the sky is my friend used to say, Wow, don't get trackers in the sky. Don't get tracked by big data.
1:17
Look,
Law Smith
1:18
if I die, Eric's gonna wipe out everything forever. Or I can go ExpressVPN no one can track me try expressvpn.com forward slash sweat. Gets it three months free. Try that on your pants. Yeah, I'm just gonna make up phrases and
1:36
try your pants on.
Law Smith
1:39
grasshopper. cool air. grasshopper. Try grasshopper.com forward slash sweat. It's a $75 off an annual plan. You need to book you gotta have side hustle. You need another phone line. Don't use a Google Voice. Because there's a myriad of problems with that you try to advertise with that number. He can't do it. Try grasshopper.com forward slash rake. It's a $75 off an annual plan $75 off a goddamn phone plan. Who else is doing that for you not
2:05
know what that person
Law Smith
2:07
try grasshopper.com forward slash sweat like key sweat or sweat equity. the titular part of the show, Warby Parker Warby Parker. trial.com, forward slash sweat. Get your five free peers to frown at home. You got prescription glasses?
2:23
Don't get don't
2:25
get fucking beat up like big classes. Man dirty getting beat up your glasses.
2:29
These are
Law Smith
2:30
big phone. Fucking big, big glassware out there. Right? Surprisingly, the glass is the biggest monopoly of all of them. Yeah, Warby Parker. trial.com. forward slash sweat hit the disruptor company that is making it happen. $95 for most of the stylish sunglasses, that you're paying 600 $700 for I can't believe me. Five free pairs of Tron at home. They can fit my oval face. They can fit yours. We're ready to get this party started. Okay. sweater.
Law Smith
3:21
I like the Ross like the unedited stuff. All right. Well, we're recording life, man.
3:27
I'm trapped here.
Law Smith
3:29
You're good.
3:30
I'm good.
Law Smith
3:32
We didn't have trapped was emotional or if you're emotionally trapped or refrozen on your Zune.
2
Speaker 2
3:39
No, I've backed myself into like this corner here that can't really get out of like the world's comfy emotionally Yeah, emotionally and physically.
Law Smith
3:49
Well, let's introduce our guest, Tim Jones whisky wolves of the West. You got the reason we got our bromance back together. Your mother in law emailed me forwarded me yells Kickstarter. And I was I haven't talked to y'all forever.
2
Speaker 2
4:09
Isn't she the best? I don't think I'd seen you since like a gasparilla or your wedding or? Okay, remember?
Law Smith
4:17
Yeah, I just got divorced. So we'll have to have a party for for the exit plan.
4:22
Wait till mine's done then we'll do. Yeah.
4:24
Well, you guys did a double divorce. Yeah,
Law Smith
4:26
yeah. We're doing a bachelor party
4:29
and a double vasectomy. today. I hear that. Yeah.
Law Smith
4:33
We got a Groupon Yeah.
4:37
We had to do with the left hand button, or the vasectomy, or no, we
Law Smith
4:41
pay more for the divorce sacrament. It was we have to hold hands as part of the conditions. At least that's what I told it was so weird. But to let the listeners know, your, your wife was my roommate, like 2008 ish 2009 When I lived in LA,
2
Speaker 2
5:01
yes, so that was the first place that she lived when she moved out there. Yep.
5:05
Mm hmm.
5:06
And you guys were in Santa Monica. Yeah, yeah.
Law Smith
5:09
Pretty
2
Speaker 2
5:11
much right before I met her. Yeah, I mean, she I dated a girl that lived like right around that same area in like, 2000 Oh, dude before 2005 and I used to ride my bike up and down the strand there and, man. Yeah, you guys run it in a special spot. And then I met her. Just right after I think she moved over to kind of like the Beverly center area.
Law Smith
5:36
Yeah, well, I mean, look, when she was my roommate, she was horror in it. Like dicks just all the time. Just coming in is like, Wow, did she figure out Tinder before it happened? kind of thing that looking back at it. I'm sure I'll get a shitty text all flapped up
5:55
over it. I don't know if you can tell how
Law Smith
5:57
you will find that fun. so anxious. How about this? I do. The only thing I do remember is I like living with women. Because they're much. I don't know. There's they're, they make you clean. And make you want to be cleaner.
2
Speaker 2
6:11
Yeah, I mean, we have a really great relationship. In that I'm super disorganized. I'm clear. I'm a clean person. I like to clean but I have no problem like coming home and taking everything out of my pockets at a different location and dropping it around the house. And we you know, we dated for like five years before we ever live together. And because we didn't really I mean, I lived with her sometimes in Los Angeles when I was not touring. And, but that was always like her place. I just, you know, had like a suitcase that I would just bring in for like, a few days and then and then be gone again.
Law Smith
6:50
A musician that's unorganized.
2
Speaker 2
6:53
That's Yeah. And so she Yeah, well, we finally we rented a place together, right before you know, like when we got engaged in Nashville. And then when we when we rented our like, when we bought a house in 2014. And we got like, some cabinets and stuff. She was like, this is your drawer. And all of your stuff goes in this drawer from now on. Yeah, back to your house. You put your stuff in this drawer if there's ever anything that you're missing. Look in this drawer first before you ask me. Oh, man, I filled up like in like two days it was filled?
Law Smith
7:30
Well, I mean, look, she doesn't know how many pods you carry around in those cargo shorts. So you're always out there banging them out, man. So
2
Speaker 2
7:38
yeah, my freaking home all the time. I haven't had Yeah, I gotta get back into the cargo shorts. Again, I did see myself looking at some cargo pants the other day? Well, your as
Law Smith
7:49
a dad, she'll probably let that slide because it may as Dan Cummings has a bit about it. Your wife just doesn't care what you wear anymore. Because she wants you to be unfuckable to other people.
2
Speaker 2
8:03
So plus, she can hold on. That's not my wife and I have a great relationship as well as that jealousy is never even, like remotely been an issue with us. And so she still encourages me to look my best as a matter of fact, she was like is this thing that is are gonna be like a video with it? And I was like, I don't know. I haven't I didn't ask. And then I got like an email. But I checked my email. Just a few minutes a cheater like God, you know, she's like, you probably put on a shirt because I'm at my parents house. in Indianapolis. We've been having like, post Christmas Christmas again. And I stayed in my pajamas till four or five o'clock yesterday and I was pretty close to hitting that point again today if it hadn't been for you guys. Good. grabbed my pajama party.
Law Smith
8:51
Well, you know, or it could be alcoholism in Indiana cuz they fucking booze. I've been there. I've been I've stayed there a couple weeks before and secretly Midwestern people because it gets dark at like four. Yeah, in the winter. They're all like, like, you feel like they're very nice pleasant people that would never drink and they all do it in their own basement. Clock. Yeah, they're like a lot of secret alcoholics in the Midwest. I found out
2
Speaker 2
9:18
are alcoholics. Yeah, well this is this is just a ginger ale from Winchester Kentucky. We didn't see that before until you raised it up but
Law Smith
9:26
and hold on yourself. Look honestly, we wouldn't care if you're fucking blackout drunk right now.
9:31
They probably do smoke crack
2
Speaker 2
9:35
crack here. Well, yeah, hard to get good crack here in Indianapolis.
Law Smith
9:40
Yeah, it's been said many a time but yeah, you gotta go to Gary Indiana. I heard not South Bend. That's that's what all I know about crack getting
9:49
better there.
Law Smith
9:50
What? Tell me about this Kickstarter. So I have a lot of questions about like, the music business. As it is like You're kind of a really interesting guest to have on because you're professional musician. You've had albums out before. You know, I think everything I've heard, I've been jamming to yourself a lot this week in prep. And just, it's one of those things where I know from the comedy side, how hard it is to, you know, get over that hump, you want to get to right? How do you make any money now? Especially in the COVID time when you can't tour doing music? I just, I'm so like, square one about it. I don't want to try to make any assumptions because I usually in the music world, what I think is not how it goes a lot of the time. Yeah.
2
Speaker 2
10:47
Well, my father in law has the same question. Who is great, you know, my mother in law's like a full? They have been big supporters. Since since I met Katie.
Law Smith
11:02
I'm asking my wife on a curious standpoint, not on a dad stamp.
11:07
Plan, Tim, what's my plan? What's the plan?
11:12
pandemic?
Law Smith
11:13
What you gonna do with your life? You good enough? My daughter before for your Kickstarter also had an awesome, what do they call it? A gift a reward? If you pledge $200 you do a drunk history with them?
2
Speaker 2
11:26
With you? Yeah, yeah, it's, it's sold out now. But so um, and one of the great things about steal
Law Smith
11:32
that idea, honestly.
2
Speaker 2
11:34
Yeah. I mean, we could do like a whole Kickstarter episode of what I've learned from it. And it was great. But I think there are, you know, this is a nuanced question, because even before the pandemic, as a songwriter, the revenue stream that we were getting has been basically eliminated by Spotify, and Apple Music and YouTube, where people are listening to music, of where you get paid before from selling records as a songwriter, or from being on the radio as a songwriter. All of those have basically just been trickling down to nothing, where even if you were like, a multi Platinum songwriter, you were seen, you know, pennies on the dollars of what you were making before. But so we kind of try to game the system as whiskey was the West and we released a song every other Wednesday, for almost two years. And so we're just putting out everything. They're still like, ultra quality, but a lot of quantity. To try and just hit this, you know, whatever the algorithm was on Spotify, to try and put as much out there where it's, you know, as opposed to trying to have one song that got a million plays, have 50 songs that get 20,000 plays each, you know, I think doesn't that equal a million? So and and that did help a lot. As far as you know. Apparently, people in 77 countries listened to us. And we had over a half a million plays between all the songs that we have out there. But still, it's just not enough revenue stream for one person to live on much less to because I have a business partner with Google who left leeward pal who makes most of his money as a session guitar player on a lot of Dave Cobbs records which like this year, he's played on Shania Twain and Dolly Parton and Barry Gibbs and Travis tritt. And like all these old school country people and Oak Ridge Boys, but also did like sturgill Simpson's first record and, and Chris, Isaac, and Cody jeans and all this kind of outlaw country, the Nashville the new national sound that you know, if you google who Dave Cobb is, you can see all pretty sure the year and stuff that he's done. So Leroy's has that still a place for him to make money. I'm not a studio musician. I've always been like a singer, and a songwriter, and more of like an entertainer. And so the majority of my income was coming through live music fame, which in Nashville is great because you can do, you can play live for a lot of the tourists that come to play your own music, play covers, and then that ended up generating a lot of private events and corporate parties and stuff like that, which really enhanced our ability to make revenue without feeling like we needed to be sustained by our art, which does freed us up to make more pure art.
Law Smith
14:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I recently just learned that, you know, back in the day it was really more songwriters made the real coin. Yeah. And if you got to be, you know, one of the labels go to people after a while, like, you're just because it because the what is it the residual? Whatever Yeah, yeah. Whatever,
2
Speaker 2
15:24
yeah 9.2 cents per song, up to 10 songs per album. So if you were the sole songwriter on an album, you know that so you'd be getting 92 cents per album sold. And if the album sold a million copies, then you got $920,000. So that was a big revenue stream or if you just even had one song on a Tim McGraw record that shipped 6 million copies, then you were good for, you know, the year interesting as a songwriter, which again, still you know, those places to get to that level, you're pretty much only dealing with a group of songwriters, probably, you know, 300 songwriters, and all national in all the world that are being considered for those kind of, you know, albums, where it's not like, somebody's just gonna come into Nashville with a song and be like, I'm gonna get it on Tim McGraw his record, you know, even with the even with all the people that I know, in the music that I've that I've played, the stuff that I've done, it's still very hard for me to crack in to that game, even though I have a ton of friends that are in it, and a ton of friends that, that run it as well. And then at this point to try and work to do something like that is is you know, it doesn't really pay off.
Law Smith
16:45
Yeah. So, it that's interesting, because, you know, I'm thinking about it from like a copywriter perspective on the comedy side. And it's kind of the same upper echelon, and you got to kind of wait for a lot of guys to die to get in that kind of upper crowd. No matter how funny you are, you might not get in that area you want to
17:07
do, huh, that's what they told you.
17:11
We're just waiting for Larry to die.
Law Smith
17:15
Eddie gorodetsky is the best punch up guy, man. But it's like one of those things where you name dropper, you got this, like an old school reference. I don't even know how I nobody.
17:24
I'm gonna drop as many names I can't today.
Law Smith
17:28
We take this one, we transcribe this podcast using otter.ai. And every time we kind of do a lot more famous he kind of names were, or specific names of people that have niches. It helps her SEO. So
17:42
what is it? What is otter dot A this is I like
Law Smith
17:44
this zoom. And then we we have it with otter, which is an AI transcription app. So we drop the file in there, and then it'll put out like a transcript of the whole thing.
17:55
And where
2
Speaker 2
17:58
does that go along with the YouTube video and does like search engine optimization?
Law Smith
18:04
We need to get there I've dropped that shit the bed on base? Well, YouTube SEO Yeah,
2
Speaker 2
18:08
the YouTube side of things were basically non existent. But for our website, it can act as a blog post, which boost SEO. Okay, it's it's, you know, all those words. Well, I need to learn about all this. Yeah, because if there was even just like the connections that I mentioned, if somebody was looking for, you know, a sturgill Simpson song that also liked, you know, Leroy pal, then we would want them to find whiskey wolves in the West. But that is something that as people who are completely autonomous, in our art, we're also completely autonomous in our in our business, which means that we're doing everything and there's just at some point, there's like a, you know, it's like, well, I've got two kids, I also need to sleep. What else? You know, how can I do some more search engine optimization? Or what what am I going to focus on today to try and make you know, if you do one thing a day for your art, I think you're you're doing great. And, and sometimes the nuances of that sort of business where we want to attract as many people as possible, but without hiring somebody to do that for you becomes it's hard to do it all. We
Law Smith
19:21
like hit me up if you ever need any, any like, hey, I want to try to do this. I don't even know where to look. I do. Yeah, don't hesitate to hit me up. I love sharing the nerd knowledge. It's kind of part of the reason we have this podcast is like, oh, here's a cheat code I heard or we're learning if other musicians, aspiring musicians, because you have to be your own entrepreneur, marketer. If you want to do any art at a professional level now, you know, yeah, you waive it.
2
Speaker 2
19:51
Yeah, I've got a I've got a list of questions I'll send over thanks for opening that door. Yeah, man, of course. And
Law Smith
19:57
like as I'm listening to the talk about All this. Yeah, we try to keep these episodes pretty quick and I've got a lot of different ways to go to ask you a bunch of questions. I'm like, why don't you? Why don't y'all have a podcast gone?
2
Speaker 2
20:12
We we talked about it like a couple years ago just because Leroy's is super knowledgeable about so much and in the industry, and, you know, I like talking. I like people. But I think at the at the time.
Law Smith
20:30
Like, you're funny, that's why I like it. You're gregariously funny, like you're conversationally funny. That's, that's kind of in in with the podcast, you don't really have to try to be funny. If it happens. It's great. Right? Yeah, but you push too much for it. It feels fucking thirsty. Yeah.
2
Speaker 2
20:48
Well, I yeah, I feel like there was a at the time, when we talked about your there just seemed like an overwhelming abundance of people that were doing podcasts and not the same market of people that wanted it. But now I feel like there is so much of an abundance of people that want it and for each, you know, a niche of the thing where somebody was, like, I want to know how to break into the comedy business. And you're always podcasts would come up where if somebody else was like, I want to know the history of songwriting, or the Nashville studio sound or whatever you like, that if you did the right tags that, that we if we had a podcast that something would come up, and more that you have, like a historical record, you know, I have a history degree. And I would be into trying to see this later on from a different perspective and be like, oh, wow, that's what I thought when I was, you know, four years old. That's interesting.
Law Smith
21:47
Look, yeah, you can, you can not don't what I would say is don't keep it to it needs to be we need to talk about this. Like, people like the personal stuff, bring up any historical shit. If it's you and your partner, or whatever, just going back and forth. I think people would like to hear about the the raw like you're trying to do as you're doing it. I think that's why they interesting for
22:12
for, like a documentary for yourself. Audio. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a great idea.
Law Smith
22:18
I feel like we always talk about this don't get hung up in like, well, there's 900,000 podcasts in the world. And we're just gonna be like, you know, a speck of sand in the desert kind of thing. And it's like, Don't fuck Don't fuck with that at all. Just if you had 100 people listen, right? That were loyal listeners. Think of them in a room. Listen to you guys for fucking however long you want to do your podcasts? Right?
2
Speaker 2
22:44
Yeah, no, you're totally right. It's not like I ever played music based upon whether or not there are 100,000 other bands.
Law Smith
22:52
Right. So that want to break out of that defeatist kind of thing. Because I do that too. I'm like, wow, yeah,
22:57
well, that's upon
Law Smith
22:58
Yeah, it's like, fuck it. I mean, everybody's doing that.
2
Speaker 2
23:01
No, they I mean, the Kickstarter thing was definitely broke down a lot of my ego barriers as well, because I was the person who, when I would see like a pledge music, or a Kickstarter or Indiegogo or GoFundMe or something like that. I was like, Oh, I really like does this person need my money? Or like, Why? Why are they asking for money or, or, and ours was a different scenario where we weren't asking for money, we had already made the album's we were just letting people like pre buy the records, and pre buy the events. Because, essentially, there, we didn't find any way to sell the albums anymore, or to generate publicity or hype without something like that. It was either hire a publicist, hope that some people that they would get some articles, you know, spend $3,000 a month on a publicist for three months, in hopes that you would get some kind of traction so that people could buy, you know, so that you would sell 500 records where I was like, why don't we take the people that we know, get them to commit to an amount that's equal to selling 500 Records, basically, and then not have the worry of that. And if we make enough that we can still hire the publicist, we've already sold the records and we can generate some more interest off of that without the weight of being in the red on our back.
Law Smith
24:30
Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I think, you know, if I'm, I'm thinking about it as a when I, you know, really into music, when I was much younger, and you want to be like first on a band, or like you want to, yeah, you know, like you want to be like about them. There's a lot of you back then I'm the coolest like I listened to outcast in 92 as a really suburban white kid. I don't know how I found them. Sometimes. You're
24:59
so cool.
Law Smith
25:00
Southern playlisted Cadillac music and then they blew up like my mom knows them like, but you know Hey y'all or something. Yeah. And you're like god damn really everybody and then everybody thinks they knew outcast when, you know. But
2
Speaker 2
25:17
earlier than you though Hootie hoo Yeah, I mean I was booking bands in Los Angeles or in and singer songwriters mainly at the hotel cafe I had every Sunday night there from like 2002 to 2008. And there were so many people whose first shows that I booked and that I, you know, feel like I helped discover in some way it but none of it matters. Now, it doesn't matter if I'd be like, yeah, I booked times for a show or Colby Kelly or Jonathan Wilson or you know, Katy Perry played my Oktoberfest charity, you know, and Mike isn't Oh, that's that's me. We're none of it is my just my ego that makes me want to think that I'm important in some way. And eventually, none of that stuff matters where I like, I was working there and booking bands as a way to make extra money and further my own art and career, but I really enjoy doing it as well. There's nothing that I would do for very long that I didn't enjoy in in some way. And since this is been you know, my my whole career, it's definitely taken. I'm disliking the word pivot. Now. It seems like everyone
Law Smith
26:32
we've been saying that is the most fucked outward marketing world, or whatever, this or content kind of stuff.
2
Speaker 2
26:40
Yeah, I mean, I think everybody is over it. You didn't seem as like, I mean, unprecedented. became like just a, you know, like, everybody's so over hearing that, like, eight months ago. Well, that
Law Smith
26:50
was the word of the year, according to Webster's, I think.
26:53
Yeah, I'm sure. And
26:56
I just wanted to test and word range.
2
Speaker 2
27:02
range. Merriam Webster's calling. I didn't know. It just is I think it's you know, as well as Midwesterners being some dark alcoholic, sometimes, there is a certain work ethic that people have here that I was definitely instilled with of the night. Okay, so you've felt bad for yourself for whatever for however many days like now it's time to figure it out, and nobody else is gonna figure it out for you.
Law Smith
27:35
Yeah, and then you've got two young kids like we both do, respectively. And it's it's one of those things that'll also be that that can be a little light. Like get your little fucking flame under your asshole to get going. Because you're like, you know, your asshole. Yeah.
27:55
Why is it says
27:58
Be like, I
28:01
gotta get that close all your story to tell you.
Law Smith
28:04
Oh, boy. Can't wait. Well, yeah, but I mean, but they're there to me. Sometimes. It's it's a reminder like to get to that next level and not not wallow and not just sit there in that. I guess it's pity I don't know. But like that area where you're just not moving. Yeah, you're thinking and is thinking about doing shit. And not doing it too is another big thing I've got. Well yeah, I'll get that going. And now I've been really working on going like, stop fucking thinking about just go do it. Just see a piece of trash on the ground. Pick it up. Don't think about picking it
2
Speaker 2
28:40
up. I like to do things like make my body move first for my mind even thinks about it. Move your body. Yeah, yeah. And some Yeah, some sometimes that's that's it and and you know, answering the phone or answering a message. And when somebody asks you to do something, you say yes. Even though it's like out of your comfort zone or what have you. I mean, before we were saying no, to so many things, just because our schedule was was that busy. And so we just kept setting our price higher and higher. Somebody wanted us to do an event and we're like, Well, we've got all these other things that are more comfortable to do. They're in town that's why we never really tour you know, as as whiskey wolves in the West will do festivals and, and private events and corporate things. But there were so many things that people would ask us to do and it just wasn't worth it for us to leave town. Leave our wives and our kids at home to go play you know, a show in Atlanta for 500 bucks it's like that just does it
29:36
No, no,
2
Speaker 2
29:37
yeah, it doesn't make him sit. So it insane no and setting boundaries, then we found ourselves becoming more and more successful and being able to dictate what we wanted to do. And so even in even in and we've done stuff virtually like that we've done we started doing you know where it's Before we would play every Saturday night, we used to do this place called the sutler. National and then we played at the National Palace right across from the grand old Opry that was like an old school Honky Tonk that Jerry Reed used. And we it took like, a month or so like March and April to we're just like, what, what are we going to do, you know, and then we just started playing in our backyard, in my backyard around like a fire. And people really got into it, we were still, you know, it's charitable donations, you know, from people who just put our Venmo up there we never asked for for money, we were just like, if you have a if you want to request a song, and here's the Venmo. Here's the PayPal, y'all can give. And so the unemployment office can't really be upset because we weren't contracting job, we weren't getting paid. We just charity from from people giving us just like a tip jar. But there was no like promise of employment or anything else like that. And but we did it every week. And it really it made us happy. It made other people happy where at first I was like I had never live streamed a thing before, when I would see somebody with like an acoustic guitar on a live stream, I would just like shut it off. Immediately where we were at. But then we also we tried to make it more into a show where I would watch people play with an acoustic guitar. And then they would end and there's just silence there. And it's like, the most uncomfortable thing is, you know, doing stand up, like, you know, when it's just you and three or four people and people aren't laughing, it's really hard to get that energy going. So we tried to do it, turn it more into like a show, we had like a laugh track that we would play. And we would you know, have jokes and conversations in between Katie would be there reading off the requests from people. And I think like any you know, it's so much better to do a podcast when you have two people gathering is like two people, you know, and an audience is something else. As long as you have three people together, it turns into, I think a gathering and the whole audience is like, and you know, at times there were 100 people watching live and times are only 50 people watching live. But it didn't really change the performance for us, because I couldn't even see how many people were watching. Right? Right. I can't see that far.
Law Smith
32:21
Like, I see this as a conversation. It's just nice to catch up with you. Right? It honestly having a podcast gives me a reason to hit y'all up and to get up. So there Well, thank
32:32
you for having me on.
Law Smith
32:33
We've talked I mean, we've talked about it before, there's like 20 life benefits of doing a show that we never, we never thought about when we're doing it. It but like one of those things is reaching out to people go, Oh, this is interesting. And I haven't talked to him in five years. Let's, let's see if he wants to come on and just talk about what he's doing. You could do it. If you're there's a lot of business podcast, people now that are doing it to get in the door to meet people that they need to talk to like marketing. Yeah, I got asked to be a guest on a podcast. And then at the end of it, I was like, so this is your lead generation way. You play into the ego of people. And he's like, what? I was like, Yeah, I
2
Speaker 2
33:18
know, you're done. That's it. I mean, I hadn't even thought about that. But that is a great thing. Because it's been hard for Leroy and I, who are both veterans of the music scene in the music business, and who have a lot of famous friends and have a lot of famous business people and, and even the people that we would like to ask something from, you know, to be like, well, could you put us on, you know, this Dolly Parton show? Or could you have us open for Travis tritt on this, you know, thing or whatever, which now, it's kind of non existent right now, because nobody has any, any plans or the foresight of when you
Law Smith
33:55
dig the well before you're thirsty, you know, this is a good time to, to, to strategize to set yourself up when everything goes back to kind of green light, you know, now, you know,
2
Speaker 2
34:08
but I was just saying that it was it'd become hard for us to sell ourselves, you know, basically to people and to do those ask without feeling like it didn't distance us from other opportunities that those same people might provide. But if you were like, hey, do you want to be on our podcast, you know, then for her manager, or booking agent or whatever else, and that's a lot different as opposed to making a direct ask or if you just put that in your mind. I'm just saying that's a great, you know, it's a great way to have a conversation with somebody. And and even whether or not you want something from them or not. Oh, yeah,
Law Smith
34:50
I mean, like we've talked about it, it is a little bit of therapy. For a while. This could be the only like, long form conversation I would have all week. You know like this podcast would be it sometimes.
35:04
Yeah just be isn't every conversation you have long form though,
Law Smith
35:07
cuz I'm a blowhard Yeah. I love to bloviate, but I'm saying like you love barium
35:19
Webster.
35:20
Yeah, here.
35:22
Hello art.
Law Smith
35:24
I'm very loquacious. Yeah. All the keywords. He's
35:28
googling him
Law Smith
35:30
in my brain, bro. But I'm saying, I'm thinking we're right now goals for this show this year and I was just like, Alright, we need to get up to. I've heard if you get to 100,000 loyal listeners, as a comic, you can put, that's all you need is 100,000 strong to be way more than you need. But I don't know, I guess if that was a global of like, but the thing about podcast stuff is different. It's an intimate relationship. It's in your earbuds for most people. Right? And it's the big thing will tell you is when you start doing it, just do it. Keep doing frequency. Yeah, like we dropped a bunch of shit. Like we saw a big drop in numbers. Yeah, well,
2
Speaker 2
36:17
I one of my things that will turn me off the quickest about a podcast is when the guests or there's like, different levels, you know, and I've heard this don't even super big podcasts, especially now because a lot of people are calling in over zoom. But it's like the guest voices way down low. And then the host voice is way up here. And then you have to keep adjusting it in your headphones or your you know, like I want to hear like a consistent, smooth, pleasing, sonorous voice on all ends. Now I gotta go back and listen, I know. Well, it's like a compressed, you know, there's probably a compressor or ASL or something that that you could put on it to make it American Sign Language.
Law Smith
37:06
So here's here's, so here's what I do with that thing. We're just you're putting that almost like a speed bump ahead of doing it. Right. So it's like, I got to worry about this problem, right? I just, I used to do this, and I remind myself of doing it, it helps I just go, this has to exist somewhere, that I can streamline it, like someone's created a way to just automate this audio issue I might have, right? It's got Yes, it's somewhere or plugin or something that takes whatever amount of minutes or seconds to do. Yeah, you know, it's one of those things that like, I'll figure that out. That's, that's an easy figure out it's more about like, it's like going for a lot of people that are going to start their new year's resolutions to go work out. The hardest part is like, just getting out of the house with your fucking shoes on your sneakers on. Yeah, to go exercise. Like, that's the that's the Yeah, I mean, it's just dark isms,
2
Speaker 2
38:00
as much music as I've done, and I've made vinyl records. Before, I'd never done, I'd never paid for it myself. And I've never gotten into the brass tacks of what goes into it. And one of the things is that you basically have to master your music, specifically for vinyl, because a lot of times when you're mastering for for Spotify, or for the radio or for just, you know, digital platforms, they're pushing the bass way up, because the files get squashed down. So much. So this is like a lesson in mastering that. Even if you did, you got to get the right program for you. Right format.
Law Smith
38:38
I didn't know that. Yeah, well, we didn't know that either. So a couple I just kind of thematically what the only reason I'm really kind of pushing me to do this is a, you kind of told us like, you're fine. You're You're becoming entrepreneurial and finding other revenue streams. And so as a friend, I'm saying, we'll get your ad, our or our ads people so you can get the you know, the what are they called? affiliate marketing link ad. Ah, at least get you there. We'll get you to our rep over there. But this it can be another huge revenue directly if it does take on a life and you have you already have probably a loyal fan base of people. But we have to run in a second. So the one question I'm going to ask that we've tried to ask all our guests the first time on is what advice would you give to your 13 year old self?
39:38
Whoo.
Law Smith
39:42
Yeah, I'm fan of what you think by luck.
2
Speaker 2
39:46
You know, my mind was going to a lot of like, weird and funny stuff, but I think for it, yeah. jerk off stuff. Yeah, yeah, like jerk off as much as possible, which I was already doing. So keep on truckin. Yeah, keep on truckin.
Law Smith
40:00
I think I was your favorite instrument
2
Speaker 2
40:02
fail? Yeah, I think I, I think I started smoking marijuana for the first time that when I was 13, that's fine. You don't smoke it, you know, take it in some kind of different form that wasn't available then. I don't know I I don't have a lot of advice for my 13 year old self. I'd say for my, I got really motivated when I was like 19 years old to make music. My career in my history of rock and roll class at Indiana University. Mike won chick, who's john Mellencamp guitar player came in and talk and kind of told us the whole spiel about how that that they had started, how they got signed, how then, and then how, basically, you know, after for different record deals, they ended up having hits with jack and Diane, and then how that he has, has had like, a sustained career as a producer, and all this other stuff. And I was like, Okay, I got this. And I think somewhere in my brain, I got really confused with the commerce of music, and the art side of it, where the art always came, you know, so easy, that I became more obsessed with commerce, part of it. And I think a lot of times to the, to the detriment of the art part. But then again, anybody else? It's It's hard to say that because I have been able to make a career off of playing music for most people never do that. So maybe focusing on the commerce wasn't a bad idea.
Law Smith
41:44
So yeah, don't kick the shit out of yourself about that part. I do that with stand up to is like, if I'm doing this too much, we're trying to go in this direction and comedy, because it's more lucrative business wise. Am I not doing the art? It's justice kind of thing. Yeah, art. I mean, talking about diarrhea in pickle. My colonoscopy where I shit my pants driving my car, or the day before the colonoscopy, I should say. But, uh, we got a split, man. Appreciate work.
42:20
Where can people find out?
Law Smith
42:23
What's it? What's the link we can tell people to go to or
2
Speaker 2
42:26
switch to wolves of the west.com there's links to Kickstarter. There's links to Spotify. There's links to YouTube videos, whiskey wolves, the West calm. Thanks for having me on.
42:37
Eric. I
2
Speaker 2
42:37
wanted to hear more about the Wim Hof Method. Dude, I think we You and I have a lot to talk about YouTube. fascinated you. Maybe
42:45
we'll
42:45
have Part Two next year. Yeah,
42:47
we'll have you on a couple months.
3
Speaker 3
42:51
tomorrow. We'll do Part Two whenever man. All right. Thanks. Care takes care. Take care. Thanks, care. Yeah, what's
Law Smith
42:59
in that ginger ale brownies out
43:02
there. See ya.
