#294: How To Hate Marketers w/ Louis Grenier
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people marketers podcast fucking business shit marketing contrarian comedians france world friends comedy brand hates bullshit listening grasshopper side louis
SPEAKERS
Law Smith
Law Smith
0:02
sweat equity pie cast, the number one comedy business podcasts in the world. We've got our guest Louise loose Grineer everyone hates marketers.com and the podcast everyone hates marketers by Louis Grineer.
0:24
say oh no Do you?
Law Smith
0:25
Well, it's French are pretty sure definitely give him a five star give us a five star on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher. Mom's Walkman. LinkedIn, we're big on LinkedIn. I'm your host last minute sitting to my right, your left is Eric Readinger.
0:46
Thank you for that.
Law Smith
0:47
Yep, we're a little sick. What? So we're gonna get right to this ad. For grasshopper. Try grasshopper.com forward slash sweat hits you $75 off an annual plan. What's grasshopper you say? Well, it's a business phone line. Do you have a Google Voice number go to your business. Fuck that shit. Do you have? Do you have your phone number? Go to your business line. Fuck that shit. Try grasshopper.com forward slash sweat. Gets you $75 off an annual phone fan. Pick your own vanity number like one 800 buy tickets. Okay,
1:23
I'm sure that's not taken.
Law Smith
1:24
Probably taken. 100 walked in.
2
Speaker 2
1:28
You're not gonna come up with one. That's not I just did one. 800 they used all those. He went to 1888 What did y'all do?
Law Smith
1:34
Local. You can do one. 800 numbers you can do 188 numbers. 1855 Whoo.
1:40
That's why all the one 800 numbers are calling.
Law Smith
1:42
Yeah, cuz all the piping going grasshopper. Try grasshopper.com forward slash sweat. You don't get the $75 off the annual plan unless you go to try grasshopper.com forward slash sweat like a sweat. Like Montez sweat. Yeah. Frank grasshopper.com. forward slash sweat. get to that. $75 off an annual plan for your business phone line. Don't be a jabroni and have it go to your personal cell phone. Don't do it. It's the worst. Hello? Is this the business? I was trying to call? Hello? Oh,
2:15
hello.
Law Smith
2:16
grasshopper.com forward slash sweat. $75 off an annual plan. Let's get this party started.
2:44
Oh, yeah, we'll just go cold dude.
Law Smith
2:45
Yeah, that's how we do it. We do a little dry rub. Right?
3
Speaker 3
2:49
Yeah, I like it as well. I like the improv man. I don't like when people send me questions in advance. And you know, you'd like us like
Law Smith
2:57
your like your style of no production. Exactly.
3:02
And production. Yeah,
Law Smith
3:03
yeah, we do that on purpose. Yeah. Yeah. It's,
3:07
I can see that you're like the challenge.
Law Smith
3:10
Yeah, everybody hates every one on one say everybody every time everyone hates marketers on Apple podcast, Spotify, what else to do? Everyone hates marketers.com.
3
Speaker 3
3:23
Yeah, that's the best. Yeah, that's that's the thing. I mean, it started as a podcast. And it's, it's it's turning into a business about fighting bullshit with radical differentiation. Anti marketing bullshit. Okay, okay.
2
Speaker 2
3:37
Louis is holding up a shirt that has a bull with a red cross thing through it. No bullshit. Well, it looks like it's anti bowl, but it's all Oh.
3
Speaker 3
3:50
Okay, there's actually shitting if there was no shade, it would be on type bool which, gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Law Smith
3:58
I can make a case for anti bowl. I could go for it. Maybe anti. You're a bear market guy. He's not a bull market guy. Yes. Yeah. See how we spun that into a good thing? That's
4:09
a white man joke there.
Law Smith
4:12
What? Bam. Everybody's in Robin Hood. In acorns and GameStop and the Reddit movement. Anti Wall Street. That's one time out. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's
2
Speaker 2
4:23
how we got hooked up with Louis here through Reddit.
4:28
Yeah, that yeah. Yeah,
Law Smith
4:30
I find your holy apps. I find your whole tongue in cheek kind of brand, for lack of a better way to explain it. Your brand messaging at least as as refreshing because we kind of feel that way as well. Like, there's a lot. There's a lot of douchebag marketing people and I've got an issue with it. I hate SEO companies. How about you?
3
Speaker 3
4:58
Hate, but I'm going to start with Something and I was actually quite happy to receive your message because when I checked out your branding and your message and I listened to future episodes, even though I had to stop after a while because I was just my heart was pumping so fast it was so fucking like, couldn't follow. I really liked. I really like the brands that you have going on and the fact that you're taking taking risks, right? Like you're not doing average things for average people, you're clearly not afraid of offending people. And that's one of the core things that that I think is the answer to the marketing bullshit. But you know what the surprising answer to what do I hate about marketing is is not actually marketers. I hate the system that make some marketers having to, to do what they have to do to fucking keep their job preservers. feed their family, you know, like pressure is immense on marketers nowadays, now more than ever, with COVID with bosses who don't understand what marketing is thinking that marketing is just fucking promotion, and where they have no say about the product or setting. So it's a tongue in cheek business, like the entire message. But I don't blame marketers I I tend to blame others who are forcing them or some of them at least
Law Smith
6:17
I like a lot of things. It's it's definitely complex and strike. It's a 3d kind of look. But it's definitely the thing of like, I think there's a lot of bullshit on the marketing side. And I get I empathize with everyone hates marketers, because there's a lot of people that do love the churn. They love the churn, they don't care because they can hide behind a keyboard. I've got a disdain for that. I also, I'm with you on the other side, that it's all the good ones. It's not a lot of their fault. Sometimes it's usually the client side, or the or the boss side, I should say.
3
Speaker 3
6:55
Yeah, I think uneasy. I mean, quote unquote easy. A simple to understand concept that is not that easy to implement is to think about it in terms of first principles, which, which are the things that will never change? And when you think of it this way, what are the things that will never change about marketing, it's always about people understanding them, you know, giving them what they want. Giving them a good fucking product, making sure they talk about it to their friends, giving them like something that they can talk about. And when you deviate from that and obsess over specific channels at the minute at the time, we're recording this like clubhouse is a fucking brand new fucking thing. I just Whoa, when he's on it,
Law Smith
7:34
I just see the link to it.
2
Speaker 2
7:36
Yeah, that's so weird. We were just talking about it was minutes ago,
7:40
cuz it's the trip, which is great. It's mid
Law Smith
7:42
February 2021. It's that's
3
Speaker 3
7:45
which is fine. Like, I don't dish like I don't this the channel? I think it's a great idea. No problem there. But the problem is when marketers obsess over that instead of obsessing over the customers, they tend to forget the bigger picture. And it's not going to solve your business problem whether you own clubhouse or not. So it's saying it's those type of things that I tried to preach through the podcast, and now it's turning into something a bit bigger. And yeah, and thanks so much for your time and for inviting me and asking this question. So it means a lot.
8:16
Thanks for having us.
Law Smith
8:17
See you later. We have to explain clubhouse just because we don't even get it. Yeah. So I don't even know that that's the thing like someone will go we gotta get on clubhouse. I know what you're talking about.
2
Speaker 2
8:31
I told it to me I said no. I said no, I'm not
Law Smith
8:34
no To be fair, most of the links are pretty bad. So
8:40
you guys fucking app This is no thing What's
3
Speaker 3
8:43
wrong? Have you watched? Are you fine of the office desert? Yeah, all right. So you know the scene when Oscar comes to Michael and say we have a surplus on on Michael doesn't understand what the fuck it means. We say can you explain it like an eight? So do you want me to explain it? Like I'm like your age or like your five.
9:02
That's this whole shit. Explain it to you like, yeah, we're
Law Smith
9:05
Reddit, Reddit splice or like our five.
3
Speaker 3
9:08
Imagine you have a lot of time in your hand. Right? Okay. And you just talk shit to each other. But instead of having just the two of us talking shit you have 300 people listening to you talking shit interest at a specific time, you know now but like, it's it's just it just audio first audio only. And it's basically a conference call or webinar, whatever you want to call it. There is only that specific time with recurring ones. So you can go into room and then every day every week, whatever you love people joining and talking.
Law Smith
9:44
That's annoying. It sounds it
9:46
sounds like an obligation. Right?
3
Speaker 3
9:49
It sounds like it's gonna kill. I mean, people say it's gonna kill podcasting, and people sell other things. But that's the bullshit and that's the problem. So first principles, where do your people hang out? By all means, if all your people are like super AG, super early adopters, people who just love the new and the shiny in the startup world, I would love the fucking hustle. In San Francisco, then you're very likely to have clubhouse to be your first channel you need to be in if you're sending two alleles in, in whatever age of sending them like stuff to go up the stairs or whatever. Don't Don't kebabs,
Law Smith
10:25
yeah, yeah. Well, we're in Florida. So we're all elderly.
10:29
You know what? That markets, right? We know that very well.
Law Smith
10:31
Well, we love it. We're jitterbug cell phone kind of marketers, you know, we're, we're electric, or medical device kind of marketers over here. But it's, it's one of those things where, you know, we're in the comedy world too. So we know, comedians are actually pretty good about getting on the first kind of thing because they're such attention whores. So it's funny, as soon as I signed up from someone that's more of an entrepreneur, serial entrepreneur, and more than that, that Bay Area kind of thing. I got the invite. I see all the comedians I know that are in it already, because they're trying to hold themselves out as fast as possible. Which I think is funny.
2
Speaker 2
11:09
If they can talk shit. I mean, that's the second favorite thing.
Law Smith
11:12
I mean, yeah, comedian, that is kind of, I mean, that's what this podcast kind of is, in a way, but really, a little bit. We want to talk shit. And notice we've had people on to be a little bit more caustic and kind of, you know, more or less if we like, people, we're not gonna shit on him. But it's not. I don't know, it's we've definitely
2
Speaker 2
11:32
had guests. We're like, Oh, this guy. Okay. Let's get him on and see what he does not you, Louis. Yeah, that was us.
Law Smith
11:39
We are you're in Ireland. Let me guess because you're smarter. You're getting the tax break. Is that why?
3
Speaker 3
11:48
Yeah, let's reinvent history. Yeah, I'm here for the twit for 12.5% profits, tax tax on profit. It's actually not that much of a tax haven to be honest. I mean, no, we pay 12.5% corporation tax. In France, it will be 33%. tax on profits. It's not that crazy. Like, I think there's this reputation because of stories with Facebook being here. Now, if you are a banker, and you are Facebook, and you want to save taxes, then Bay because you're in Europe, then you can use loopholes within Europe by incorporating a lot of shit in Luxembourg. Because you're in Ireland like, so. It's not as simple as me as a small entrepreneur. Oh, I thought I don't benefit from any tax.
Law Smith
12:33
I definitely thought Ireland was the spot to go for the tax break for like digital marketers and stuff.
12:39
No, that's, you see, that's really
Law Smith
12:41
interesting. Maybe Maybe it is on that bigger level. We do have those offices there for for that purpose. Because it's the least it sounds like it's the least expensive of all, you know, your gateway to Europe. Now it's not.
3
Speaker 3
12:56
I do I mean, to be honest, I do like the way I'm gonna be I'm gonna take some issues for this. But I do like the way the British the Irish the Americans do business compared to like the French. Yeah, that's right. I've never I've never been I've actually never worked in France apart from being like in fast foods, fast food employee and supermarket. So I don't really know the actual business on the way but I do enjoy the denoble sheet I do I do enjoy the fact that you can stick your head out and people will most likely like that. While in France, the culture is a bit more the other way like Shut the fuck up. Level A level down. Don't really show too much wealth, too much success whatever, because people are gonna feel jealous of you're no good. So I do prefer that and just to answer briefly the question the reason why I'm in Ireland is just because I was doing an internship 10 years ago here after studying in business school in France, and I stayed mad my wife may now wife and yeah, I mean, who last 10 years.
Law Smith
13:58
Nice. Yeah, I mean, how how is it over there? How is the scene I guess on the digital marketing side or or the I don't want to say Nomad marketer, but like, I just feel like there's a lot of I know, you said you've been there. You've been the opposite of Nomad. Basically, it sounds like but how is the the entrepreneurial kind of scene there? I'm curious.
3
Speaker 3
14:22
It's very, it's it's a small, it's a small scene. I mean, the Republic of Ireland has only 4.5 million people. And which I'm pretty sure is less than Florida, for example, right? Definitely. Or even less than fucking Miami.
Law Smith
14:35
You're less than probably the middle Florida if you put us in Orlando together.
3
Speaker 3
14:42
Yeah. So it's tiny. I mean, I used to go to startup weekends, you know, which are like weekends where you just go and invent a fucking ad and then group of people you don't know. And then you teach something on the Sunday and then on the Monday you forget that everyone existed. So there is a few like days of Few people who are like very kind of started p talking about startups all day every day incubators and stuff, but it's quite small. So you kind of know them all once you do one right. I will challenge you saying that there is no digital marketing side because digital marketing is doesn't exist there is marketing. That it's digital. Yeah. But yeah,
Law Smith
15:22
no debate. You're doing it with a smile on your face. It's fine. I, I agree. I look, I'm I'm someone that got into the digital space. And I really did the digital space, this thing, this online area, this, this non tg web, yeah, this non tangible part. And I feel like it may be in a contrarian kind of way, which you can pay respect. It made me go the other way. When I talked to anybody that's in the digital world. It's like, let's not ignore offline, let's not ignore traditional
2
Speaker 2
16:00
at all the same thing. You can't do it without digital marketing has to be online.
Law Smith
16:05
It's all integrated. It's all touch points. I always bring up the thing I got the sniffles, so you gotta excuse me do
16:11
stop doing bloated, dude, I
Law Smith
16:13
wish. It's I wish it wasn't post nasal drip. Which is the lamest sounding like sickness absorbing post nasal drip. It's this pitch, nausea, mine, I can't help it. But it's that thing of average, average touch points to buy a car and at least the United States is 25 touch points. 19 are digital, but sit, you know, six or not. It's very interesting how a lot of those touch points you don't even know their subconscious and all that. But yet, it doesn't. It doesn't eliminate the fact that there is traditional value. And you need to have that touch point there. You've got to pull a book out, which I feel like, just totally rocked my world. Now what No, but
3
Speaker 3
16:58
what I like to say on those types of things is you're absolutely right, like, but people don't think about it this way. Right? We marketers inventing fucking words to make things even more complex. And they are but yes, exactly. As you said, People attribute think about stuff for a long time, right? They think about stuff for a long time. The higher the purchase the riskier for them, the more they think about it, the more they will talk about it to their friends and whatnot. But what matters the most, for companies in order to get new customers on so that they come back, they think of you when they want to buy a car is to build mental availability, which is a great concept. And again, the first principle concept, which is about making sure that they think of you, when the people think of you when they are ready to buy or when they're thinking of a car, that was the first brand that comes to mind, you know, and then and then seeing you so it's beyond just top of mind. It's also physical availability, meaning making sure that you have stores everywhere so they can buy from you. And so it's a bit beyond beyond that. And this book is very good for that. Like how brands grow by Byron sharp, OC guy, I think, and what I like about this book, compared to most other marketing book is that it's scientific. And I know the science the S word in the us right now is not that super fucking better.
18:11
That's not applying to us. We like science. Yeah, no, I
18:14
know. I'm but Dude, I know you.
18:17
I know. It's like that sucks.
Law Smith
18:19
Eric doesn't believe in dinosaurs. But other than that, I haven't daddy's
18:23
place. Cool.
18:26
But how do we still have
3
Speaker 3
18:29
but I love I love the I love going back to these principles to to just brush off the buzzwords and think back about you don't talk about your about buying your car this way. You know, you don't think I'm going to traditional way right now because I'm talking to someone whether they know a good brand. And then I'm going to go digital now because I'm going to search on Google. Oh,
Law Smith
18:49
yeah. Yeah, you don't think about it that way from the consumer side at all? No. That's the trick of marketing. That's the magic of it, as they like to say that, you know, that you don't know. You don't know you're being marketed to.
3
Speaker 3
19:04
Yeah, and that's usually that's the right type of marketing. Tell me more like insert? Yes, give me plenty of question. But I'm actually super curious. I didn't read on that. So what why did you do Why are you doing this podcast? Like what's your what's your play
Law Smith
19:15
it we're the number one comedy business podcasts in the world because there isn't any others
19:20
and creating a new category like it.
Law Smith
19:24
It started out with? Yeah, some some cause trailblazers, you know, category creators, deals. I'm trying to think of all the buzzwords I can throw out there that annoy me but innovators. Yeah. disruptors. disruptors. My favorite. No, we, I had an agency for five years. And Eric worked there as well. We just, you know, it's one of those things where we have a mix of comedy. I think there's a lot of there are a lot of funny things in the business world. There's not a lot of authenticity in it. like LinkedIn is the opposite of content that you you would call authentic. And I thought there was a good lane for this kind of, you know, professional world meet. Like, a real stand up talk in a way.
2
Speaker 2
20:14
Yeah, we definitely have that creative monkey on our back that we want to produce things you know. And for us, we find ourselves funny, though, we think that you know, we'll sit down and talk for a while and should I change the camera so that people can't see how disgusting you are? Oh, my just right.
20:35
Here at this shit,
20:35
come on, man.
Law Smith
20:38
Why did you sell my books on it? No, my, my thing was like, the talks I have with people behind closed doors are way more interesting. Here's the other thing we know what we don't know. And so by this podcast is a vehicle to have someone like, I would never reach out and go, Hey, can we talk for 30 minutes? You know, on clubhouse right.
21:00
Some other things that we'd be friends for? We're not gonna do it.
Law Smith
21:05
But that was a I would call that a symptom of that was like, something that happened as residual effect of having the podcast is, is going out of your comfort zone to reach out to people to go, Hey, I like what you're doing over here. Can you come on? Now? Now you see, I'm sure you've seen this too. This is my least favorite thing. People making podcasts in the business world just to get the lead to talk to them. Which is smart. It's smart. But the comedian side of me that the authentic. Keep it real kind of side of me really hates it. It's smart. It works. I if someone asked me to come on their podcast, and I get that sniff of it. of yours asked me on Yeah, my business. Yeah, I'll call it out the first like, I'll make sure to make it like minute three, because they need to edit it. Yeah. You
21:56
know you Lola man. Yeah.
Law Smith
21:58
Oh, is that what you have me on? Yeah. Do you want to Oh, I know, this is a lead gen thing. And they're like, Huh, I'm like, that's it. That's
3
Speaker 3
22:05
a good point. And that's why podcasting is getting so popular because people get the idea that it's a Trojan horse for you to to make friends build connections. And now for business like for my like my own, I reach
Law Smith
22:18
we have a model for you after the show. Is that okay? Of course, we're gonna be a proposal phi.
3
Speaker 3
22:24
I reached 1 million downloads through the podcast over the last four years, right? I saw so quite a lot. However, however, humblebrag i, it's, it's, I found it incredibly difficult to convert listeners into anything. Well, more than people listening. Right? So what do you want your time? Well, now over time, my point is that to like, quote, unquote, monetize, or if if you're trying to launch a podcast right now, and want to make money off of it, and think even with 20,000 fucking listens, every week, you're gonna get anything apart from maybe good sponsorship, and good deals like that i you're gonna struggle is my point. So it's a Trojan horse for the next thing, which is people adding me on LinkedIn or Twitter joining the my email list, but it takes a long time. So it's not an easy channel for that. But to build connections like we are right now and to make friends and yeah, and it's fucking awesome.
Law Smith
23:19
Well, we talked about it like him, and I will do this if 10 people are listening. And that's where it needs to start. Yeah.
2
Speaker 2
23:25
Yeah, there has to be that passion. It can't be. If you go out, this is gonna be my job. If I fail at it, I'm done. It's like you're not gonna that's not gonna be a good podcast.
1
Speaker 1
23:34
I still do get somebody overthinking things, every sentence. Jeez, all students stand up in front of 10 people to like, you have to do it in a way to like the craft the process.
Law Smith
23:45
You don't love it while you're in it. But I mean, you do over time. And it's just about a bunch of reps, I still don't think we're where we know we can be with the show. But for for us. Again, on the comedy side, the comedy business side. A lot of guys have a podcast, so they sell tickets on the road. A lot of people can do live podcasts that that might be something down the line for us if we can get it.
3
Speaker 3
24:10
Yeah. But the link is a bit more obvious right for you like, because it's more what you're hearing. Yeah, on the podcast would could be material that you could hear live as well. And it's like, maybe the link is closer.
Law Smith
24:26
We improv so much that it's not. Things I'm repeating are usually from someone else. And it's usually kind of stuff from I always like to say we're gonna only repeat stuff I heard from smarter people. It's not stuff I'm coming up with wholecloth I mean, that's all business to me, right? businesses going, they do this well, we're gonna do this a little bit better. We're gonna copy what they did, we're gonna do a little bit better, or different, or whatever you want to call it. So what? What brought you I'm curious what frustration brought you to the contrary and brand of everyone hates marketers.
3
Speaker 3
25:02
I mean, I, I was called by my history teacher in high school an intellectual terrorists. Wow. Yeah, guys, and he took me to my car, man, I mean, this teacher like that that's the word that we'd always never forget because I remember I was being so shaken. It was a few years after 911 and even in France, obviously, like, it was still a very, very sought sensitive topic and to be cold. Like that I realized how fucking of an asshole I was to all of my, to all of my professors, teachers. So I used to find flaws in their thinking all the time. And to the point where it just, it's just, I think, been part of my psyche after, like, he just couldn't like constantly trying to peek and poke holes. And I did that with my parents, friends, everyone
Law Smith
25:53
reclines
3
Speaker 3
25:54
class clown. It wasn't really clown, he was more like trying desperately to get attention from others, but honestly being funny, but trying to be like a
Law Smith
26:05
comedy is about contrast, right? You're trying to get a rise out of them. And
26:09
yeah, exactly. But to myself,
Law Smith
26:11
right, but maybe you did in a dickish way. Like, I I'm seeing that I'm not touching you kind of kid, you know, puts the hands and faces y'all have those kids?
26:20
Yeah, that kind of shit. Maybe
26:22
not touching you. Like
3
Speaker 3
26:25
to get a reaction, right to get a reaction, you know, and so and so it never really left me but I kind of forgot it when I started in marketing. And I forgot that that was my that was my age. That was the reason why I was in marketing was actually to make people react and find new ways to make people react and to make people do what we'd like them to do, you know, and in the southern my career, we I did Crazy, Stupid blackhat stuff that never really were like stuffing keywords into a page. And
26:56
you know, yeah, don't don't
26:57
put me on and
3
Speaker 3
27:03
but then after a while, I realized what I was so pissed off about and when when I linked that back to, to that part of my personality. I was like, aha, this is like, this is who I am like, I'm a contrarian. I love that I love just for the thrill of it sometimes. I don't necessarily disagree, but I just fucking love just telling you something. Yeah, it's just fucking you know, you. Yeah, yeah.
Law Smith
27:24
Yeah. Sounds like we're cut from the same cloth. Have you been told you would have been? You would have made a good lawyer?
27:32
No,
Law Smith
27:33
really smart man really gives a smart tip. No, it's typically more You don't have to be or maybe maybe the attorney field is lowered here the United States lately, but but everybody's like, if you have a strong angle, and you're kind of a contrarian. You can kind of see I see it as a plus. I've always thought of myself in a similar way. So that's the laws different in Europe, you know? Yeah, maybe? I mean, maybe it's a little I don't know, maybe?
27:59
way different rules. Yeah.
Law Smith
28:01
You don't have 3000 billboards for attorneys over there.
3
Speaker 3
28:04
Yeah. No, no, you can't as a lawyer. You can't advertise in France.
Law Smith
28:09
Yeah, I would say. So. definitely different. Right. We they are treated as big but but I get it.
3
Speaker 3
28:15
I get I get the executive point. My dad wanted to be a lawyer for the same reason. He is like an asshole just like me. He kind of lost his way became a teacher.
Law Smith
28:25
Comedians do the same thing. Look at bill burn, you'll watch a stand up. He's gonna what he does in the last couple. He's the best example because he will take the opposite angle of what's popular, and he will make you think about it. The Donald Sterling thing with the clippers.
28:41
And then he'll flip Yeah.
Law Smith
28:42
And then he'll, he'll just talk about it in such a way. It's not what he believes in. Honestly, a lot of the time, he just knows that angles gonna get a rise out of you. He just wants you to see the other side. And that's I I see that in good debaters. I see that good. Just listen to Elon Musk on Rogan. And he does it in a different way. He's Elon Musk is talking about like, I just don't spend time and things that don't make sense to me. It basically is his value. So it's like, he's he's a contrarian in the fact that he doesn't get caught up in the bullshit. And his way of thinking. So what I run five businesses, so what? And everybody's like, Well, that seems like a lot. Oh, and he's like, I know, I just I have I hired good. He is the most pragmatic guy of all time because he's just like, I don't I don't think about anything like that. I don't spend any effort in that area, which is interesting. I want to make sure but that's exactly it. Right? But your contrarians are a bad thing. It's it's a pejorative, mostly I'd say
2
Speaker 2
29:40
it's seeing both sides. It's a it's a well rounded thing as long as you're not a dick about it. You know, it's a it's a skill. Yeah, you keep telling us and not dug in on something all the time. You know,
Law Smith
29:50
if you're an asset because I was
3
Speaker 3
29:53
I was adding an extra I think there was the extra edge of the wrong tone, the wrong timing. Maybe all of that, but now I'm using it for good.
Law Smith
30:03
How about this, I found that I can be a dick on stage as long as the smile. As long as I'm going like this. Everything's all right, right? that no one's trying to wait for me at mile right off. No one's waiting for me after the show. I'm just at a barbecue man. I want to make sure to ask this question, because we'll have you back on. We try to keep these episodes pretty short. What if you could travel back in time, and you could see your 13 year old asshole dickish self in history class didn't have to be history class. But if you could travel back in time, and give your 13 year old self some advice, what would that advice be? Well,
3
Speaker 3
30:40
it's the most cliche answer. But people who went through that journey will understand I'm pretty sure the two of you will understand because you're both creative people, is to follow my guts bit more, I think sometimes your body your mind tells you to follow something because there is this energy in it like you want to do it because you fucking want to do it. And I wish I followed that instead of like forcing myself not to, I wish I had I wish I so I would tell you to I would tell myself in yourself to do that and follow what excites him to not feel like it's geeky to go on the internet all the time and pursue that because I was just looking
Law Smith
31:19
at any specific story. I feel like I can see the wheels turning on things that right, right while
3
Speaker 3
31:26
Yeah, I was I was the first one of all my friends who have a high speed internet, right? Okay, so poor and Exactly. World of Warcraft three kind of shit like that. But not only like, I was following, like a few blogs on business and whatnot and on psychology stuff. Like I read a few books at my brother's place about psychology when I was young, and that that fired me up, man. And I kind of forgot about it for a while until I came back to it because you see the psychological stuff, like the psychological bias and stuff was one another way to, to get a reaction out of people to to elicit something and and yeah, I wish I had known that from the south, but it's part of the journey. So a for a marketer.
32:12
I mean, psychology is everything. You know,
Law Smith
32:14
it's all businesses. Yeah. This is just basic psychology. I think. Yeah. All right. Well, let's have you back on pretty soon, like a month. I'll probably have more pointed stuff. But I could definitely see we you'd be great guests.
32:32
Yeah, man.
3
Speaker 3
32:33
Great. Love it. And thanks so much for taking the time in this in those weird weird fucking time.
Law Smith
32:39
I'm pologize for rescheduling last last week. Hey, we'll have you back on because I want to listen to maybe. Hi, bud.
3
Speaker 3
32:55
Thanks, man. Thanks for it's on. Let me know when you want to do that again. Okay.
33:00
Thank you, everybody.
