#271: How To NEVER COMPROMISE with Keith Daubmann Part 2

sweq 271 audio

Tue, 9/29 · 9:25 PM43:11

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

compromise business people talking negotiation mirroring situation sales empathy negotiated conversation listening locker room problem keith rapport grasshopper walk colin kaepernick hear

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sweat equity podcast and streaming show pragmatic entrepreneurial advice.

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I'm your host laughs missing to my right your left. Number 40 programs number one in your hearts Eric Readinger. Where'd you get that number? Nobody cares. I don't know. I'm silly like that. I'm necessarily good sometimes.

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Yeah. Are you ready to get this started with Keith dogman of my shower door? Yeah, in episodes 270. Nope. 271. Yes. Let's get going.

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Keith, welcome back on we had such a weird ending to our last conversation felt like we could talk to you for a while at least debate. Some topics. If anybody's listening that wants to go back to an episode. It's 266. We're, we had a lot of conversation about compromise versus negotiation. I guess we Samantha did it in weird. I don't remember ending weird in No, no weird, but I mean, that part ended. I shouldn't say the episode ended that way. I think that conversation about just philosophically kind of was open ended. Oh, okay. I wish Okay, now that we have to beat a dead horse or anything, but I do find it. I do find it interesting. Well, yeah, I find it interesting that since then, you send us more thoughts. And so that's why I was like, Well, have you back on? Because it's an interesting conversation.

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I want to preference this at these things that I've recently learned in my negotiation, I think it's a big difference between negotiation and bargaining to I don't want to get those confused. But I've recently learned over the last year, year and a half from a company called Black Swan group and the person who runs this company is a former FBI lead negotiator, domestically and internationally for all kidnapping, hostage taking, and he really honed in these skills over like a 24 year period regarding like the neuroscience between communication and obviously negotiations, and, you know, how do you how do you compromise with a kidnapper? Right? You know, he's got two hostages in a million dollars. You're saying no, we'll take one and we'll give you five bucks in an Uber instead of reprice. Er you just can't compromise and when I really started listening to how he described the differences,

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or the you know, the direct reasons why you wouldn't want to compromise I recently

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heard him tell one about Colin Kaepernick. And I think I said that to you guys. I just wanted to bring it up again.

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Whether no matter what side you're on with the Colin Kaepernick kneeling saga, you know, disrespecting, respecting whatever it is, whatever side you're on.

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Colin Kaepernick started his boycott, a waiver not even going on the field. It wasn't until a special Black Ops like former soldier went and had a discussion with him, and said, You know, when one of our fallen soldiers have passed away, we kneel at his grave site to show respect. Colin kapernick, compromised on his stance and thought he was doing the right thing by kneeling and showing respect and look at the negative. Like, that's what compromise does, where people just want to have the easy way out of the conversation by compromising and then it could blow up in your face. I mean, look at how that has blown up on its end, and nobody even really knows about that first beginning part that it was actually a compromise, to show respect. Right. But we don't also know what would have happened. Had he just done that? Like, what if he stayed in the locker room? Like, maybe what if he's worse off? If he stays in the locker room? Maybe you guys stabs him while he's in the locker room? What What then? You know, I don't know. So to say that, like him not negotiating

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or compromising was his downfall. I mean, it's kind of tough to say, right? Well, I'd ask you, why was he sitting in the locker room in the first place?

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Well, how much does that even matter? Well, because the point of it was, is he wanted to show that the American flag was disrespecting minorities are whatever his case was. So he didn't want to salute the American flag. And people said, you know, this is our civic responsibility. This field was bought under the pretense that we want to get everybody together and come together, what's the most civic thing we can all do is when we hear the first few bars and national anthem, we all stand up together, we unite. And he was protesting that.

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And he got away from his protest, whether you agree with or disagree, I don't happen to agree with it. But he walked away and compromise instead of having the tough discussion to get to the root of the problem and work out a amicable solution for both sides. He compromised, and went out and started kneeling on the field. And people even thought it was worse. It just, it's it's lazy. It's just lazy. I don't I don't know. I just I don't know if it's,

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he was doing that so that he could create a dialogue. You know, there, he did that what people would,

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whatever he is, whatever anybody's issue could be, I've got it right here. But like, obviously, it's about, you know, police brutality, all that stuff. But like,

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that was his way of starting the dialogue. You know, you could say, Oh, he stayed inside the locker room, and he compromised and now look at him, but like to say that we know what would have happened, had he to stay in the locker room like what what would what difference? Would it have made people would have said, Oh, he's staying in locker room? Why is he doing that? He wants to talk about this issue. How's it any different than kneeling? But there is no talking and I think the kneeling was just a way to as they got closer to having those discussions to get heat off. I think it was just I think it was a compromise. There's a compromise step. A lot of heat. He's got money on the line he's playing he's get pressure. No, it really kind of put them in a box.

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what's what's interesting about this whole conversation, I mean, we can go back and forth about Kaepernick. I don't think I mean, that's been talked about so much in it. Like, as I'm skimming through the origin of all of it, it says I'm on Snopes, because I never know what to believe sometimes. It's like, sure. Uh, no, not that I was like, fact checking that you and this year. Oh,

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I think it actually happened. Um, yeah, right. I think it happened. Let me know. What it was saying was I was trying to look up the origin. The player former player, he was a military guy that was telling him about it and see what, what Pat, Pat Tillman know. She got he died friendly fire long time ago. I know. I didn't name Nate Boyer. He didn't he wasn't active. Like Tillman, though. I don't think he was a former Seahawk player, I believe but the deal with that is it start it starts off with him and a priest, Colin Kaepernick in a preseason game, sitting down on the bench, and street clothes, not in a uniform. And that was the beginning of the protest. Not not the knee.

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small detail I find kind of interesting because preseason games kind of don't matter now they matter this year, but because everybody's gonna injured because they're not focused.

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All shape,

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I'm sure, but it's one of those things where in preseason games don't no one cares about him at all. And it was such a non story because he's just sitting down during the national anthem. And it probably just look, it didn't look distressed. It looked disrespectful. Whereas the knee makes a statement. I guess my thing was just, I want more brand. I don't know. I don't know. If you know, he stays in the locker room, how much different things would have been is my point. That's all I'm saying is like, he stays in the locker room and then we talk about it the same way and he still gets blackballed from the NFL. You know, who knows? It's just that's my point. Yeah. How about this one? This one will be more like, real easy. Yeah. Let's get a lot of different example.

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Let's use this one. Just a quick one. I want to make my wife happy. You know, I want to pitch I want to play golf on the weekend. We're going out to dinner. She wants me to wear a certain outfit. Of course, if she wants me one of these white shoes. I have these black ones I want to wear I need to wear my favorite. I'm just gonna compromise wear one of each.

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Good. married man.

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You will get Did you get you later? The real answer. You were gracious. That's the answer. Yeah. Okay, great shoes over there. Are you happily married? No. Okay, then you won't understand. Right? We're both divorced man. Maybe we might actually we might understand it way more. Yeah, right.

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He's you want to move in with us to our apartment should have been compromised. You can move in with us. Oh, no, it's all this compromise. What did you do with lawyers? Yeah. So and lawyers cannot compromise? And are you happy about that? When you compromise? Are you happy about that?

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Sometimes it's nice to get things done. It depends on context. I the problem I have. But the problem I have with your questioning was it was so broad. It You just said you know it, you spoken absolutes about it? And it's just like, No, well, there's a context for everything. Even if you're FBI hostage negotiator. He's got to put a bunch of variables together too. Right. So there's a context within his his, you know, his

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his segmented kind of specialty, right? But you're speaking in such broad strokes, that everything that everything isn't negotiated or is negotiated, right. And I know we're speaking shorthand the point, I'm trying to make the point that there's a lot of room between yes, no, if you if people just have more dialogue, instead of it soon as it gets done. Everybody gets to a point where negotiation when they're negotiating, like is is uncomfortable. How do I get out of this situation? It's usually a compromise, because that's just the quickest way to get away from it. Instead of maybe, but you see compromises randomly out. Say that again, you see, compromises surrender, you see it as a loss, weakness, and compromise is seen as the easy way out. I don't know if compromise implicitly means you lost.

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I didn't say was no, there is no win lose. If I'm using it. I'm defining it for you in the context of what you're giving it to us. Right? Because every scenario reviews, both this episode, last episode has been a situation where it has had a disagreeable face with it, right? You've not

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compromised in a good light. Yeah, that's true. Do you? Do I have lawyers logic? Yeah, yeah. I just I think in a contrary way, I try to see both sides of an argument. Kind of at the same time, it's like, flip the coin on the other side. I just okay. Why don't we do this? Why don't you to show me an example. where two parties came to a table with agendas, they, they compromised, and they left the table? static on? Wow, this was a great deal for both of us. Give me one good example. There's mutually beneficial deals that happen. You don't think so?

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I didn't say anything. I mean, I've done them. I've done mutually beneficial deals, fantasy football. You're extremely happy when you left that table after compromising said I am so glad I just compromise on that. Maybe I negotiated.

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So you lie. Allied. How do you lie? Well, I don't know. I mean,

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I don't compromise. It sounds like compromise. It mean is pejorative in your head. And it's still To me, it's a lot it pejorative it mainly, is

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it mainly a lot of people use it in the context of compromise being kind of like

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at least neutral. Yeah, at least neutral or you didn't get everything out of what you wanted. You got you lost a little bit, or and the example you're giving is I do like what you're saying about compromising out of an argument because people will do that right.

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But at the same

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It's a it's a surrendering to leave the conversation. So yeah, in that respect that just that that's an interesting side thing you brought up because a lot of people will not go into detail about an argument. And they will I've done it when I get my brow beaten by worse by the fourth by the affirmation ex wife have like just going over stuff too much. And I'm like, yeah, I'll do it, then I'll do it. I'll do it. And then you're right. And that's in that situation, yes.

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Because I just want to leave, I just want to stop this thing from happening. You want to preserve the relationship, but you want them to leave you alone. But that can be considered a win on that side, too. Because you're preserving it now. You're eating it now to preserve it later? Well, to me, it's just the in the desired result, or sorry, the desired result you want at the end may not happen right there. But it does have the intended consequences later.

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It's just, it seems unrealistic to me, I'll put it that way. Like

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to the to piggyback on what law saying about it comes across like a loss or a pejorative sort of situation. That means that every situation has a winner and a loser.

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And that's saying that you expect to win or bat 1000 every time. And that just because if you're not, then you're giving it a little bit as to what somebody else is wanting. And then you're compromising. This just so you know, I'm saying like, it's like a logic college class. Why did you pay? It just seems unrealistic to be to say, never compromise? Because I mean, I'm 37 year old man, I know for a fact that is not possible. I just there's no way you can just never compromise without coming across like kind of an asshole. You know? Like, how do you how do you not be an asshole in a situation knows what with empathy? Sure.

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weapon, great empathy. Okay, tactical empathy. Okay, all right. And what would Could you give me an example of that? Where you're getting what you want, but also showing empathy? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's been said, The Art of negotiation is letting the other side have your way. And you would do that through either a series of open ended questions, building rapport by either labeling someone's emotions, making the situation of empathy, understand it, seek first to understand then be understood. So I need to listen to you. And, and and further this conversation for you to kind of let your guard down, feel comfortable and tell me what it is you're really after. And it I talk about compromise in the context of sales mostly. And I try and teach our salespeople is customer comes in, says, Listen, I wanna start, I want this door, and I want you to knock the threads off. And if they just started saying, Yeah, we'll just stop or raise, I'll knock the price up, I wouldn't be able to continue to grow this business. A lot of these customers, there's things that are more important to them that they're not even aware of, until we bring to their attention. Because they're not buying frameless shower doors every day. That's our job as a professional to hear what their opportunity or problems are.

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Sound them back to them. So we can build rapport and trust, and then show them the solutions to solve the problems that brought, you know, they brought them in. And usually price is third or fourth on the list, even though they come in and they say we're just looking for something cheap. We just need what's that price right there. We want that. And you know, that's all we're looking for.

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And if I could slow things down, and point out a few emotions that my guts telling me, you know, your intuition kicks in. And if I go in and help build rapport and trust, trust based influence, I can start to direct that path in a into a meaningful collaboration for both people, not a win lose it be more like a win win

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it without having to compromise because they came in and said the price is too much. I need something cheaper. And I didn't just capitulate, I use some of the skill set to kind of unlock those unknown unknowns that they weren't willing to tell me when they first came into the showroom.

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Therefore not having to compromise right out of the gate.

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I don't know. It sounds like circular logic. No, no. No, it sounds like a way of business market research more than anything. I don't know if it's empathy, more than it is just asking the right questions to figure out what their their needs are. You know, I'm saying, Well, what is that but there?

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I think it's the idea that you can sort of feel what other people are feeling. Put yourself in their shoes.

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And

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you don't have to like it or agree with it. But you're right just to understand where they're coming from, you know what, what brought them in? What's causing them to act this way? What's causing them to reach out this way, instead of combating it with a statement or an order? Or demand? I would use empathy.

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Where, yeah, yeah, we agree with that. For sure. But I'm saying like, the way this was the way this was originally positioned was

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overall, just

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business non business. compromise is not an option for you.

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And I remember last episode, you give us an example where you did compromise something with your wife. Yeah, I was like, Yes. What am I not happy about it? What do you compromise on more? Okay, I tell it, okay. Learning the way you're talking about it is like you, this is what you follow. That's, that's the way it was coming out was like, Keith, I cleared out my extra bedroom. I was like, Oh, this guy's gonna be

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no time to compromise my ass. Come on over.

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I'm telling you with.

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I'm getting better at not compromising because I'm not No, no, that's not how you got it. As you get older, you cut your let you're tuned that, you know, you chill out a little bit and you compromise more as you get older.

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I have more meaningful dialogue to present more opportunities for myself and for my west by not just compromising, you know, can I go do this? No. Okay, and then just walk away from each other. And now we're both happy because we're out of each other share. You know, I'll that's like a lose lose really.

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To the outcome is different than the the what you would consider compromising, right? So we can't, you can win win. not compromise or compromise. You could lose lose compromise, not compromise. It's a win lose. Compromise, not compromise. It doesn't the result of what happens at the end.

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It could be different for both parties. That guy that came in to get a shower door. He could you could have sold it to him, right? He He could have thought he got an upsell as soon as he walked out of there, right? Oh, I got manipulated. Because this guy's asked me about my golf game, I want to give him even harder. I want to be very clear, there's zero value. There's no one off the especially with the internet. Now. That would never be the intention. You know, I'm never gonna sell somebody something they don't need, I can promise you that. This is it'll show up real quick. I shouldn't use use

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just in generalities. somebody walks into a store. They feel like after talking with the salesman, great, great deal. And then they walk out. They're like, Oh my god, what did I just do? You know, buying a car or something crazy?

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Yeah, cuz a lot of it's about incentives to so when you're talking about the hostage negotiator, or the negotiator FBI guy. You know, he's looking at the incentives of that guy while he's talking to him trying to he's probably not he's not calling them and going, Hey, stop that. douchebag he's doing like, Hey, I understand where you're at. I understand. You've got kids. I've I understand what happened to from this issue in the past. So he's using empathy as not weaponizing it but he's using it as leverage, right? Why is that not weaponizing? it? It's tactical. He knows exactly what he's doing. It's purposeful. Right? weaponizing would be a call to action. I think he's it is a call to action. He's not on the phone is calling? No, no, no, I'm saying in talking to him, giving him a call to action, giving him a directive, giving him No, I say you're saying Keith like that, you're right, he doesn't necessarily really actually care. What this person has gone through, like, know, what they really care about is getting saving lives or whatever. So but they're gonna be there. They're weaponized. They're weaponizing empathy. So what they're doing really, and, you know, well, I was trying to go the front part of the conversation, I guess, in my head, oh, he's talking to him. So that's why because empathy to me when you're talking to someone in any kind of like, conflict be business sales, or something extreme, like the negotiating thing, with a hostage negotiator, whatever.

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You know, I think I always I always have it in my head that if you're gonna have a strategy of being empathetic and listening to the problems, it's always front loaded. So that's my bad i. I'm so used to doing that in meetings that I think I've just assumed that's, y'all knew what I was talking about front loaded, how, like in the beginning of the conversation, so

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I'm do I do when I do any intro call with someone. I just tell them straight up, hey, I'm going to just spend this hour trying to listen to you as much as I can. Just trying to figure out what what they This is our work in

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relationship. This is the beginning of it if this is the beginning of it, I want to, and I tell them now I want to show you that I'm I am listening to you. Because I feel like that's something a lot of people my industry don't do. So I believe in a competitive advantage, right.

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But it's I do it naturally. Anyway, I was doing it before I knew it was a process. Because I'm always like, how can you solve a problem? If you don't know the problems?

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If you don't know if a lot of problems have a little bit more nuance than, you know, they all do? Yeah, everything has nuance, right. There's I like the minutiae. I like detail in a problem or, you know, even like a joker story, whatever it is, the the minutiae, the the little things in it, are what I think are important sometimes.

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I couldn't agree with you more. It's like Tony Robbins, a little two millimeter shift. What's that is that word shoots off in a different direction, thousands of just

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the little minutia a little different. The Tony Robbins, one of them would be an encourager would be another one of their taxes, mirroring.

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Yeah, so it's what is that. And that's sometimes how you get those unknown unknowns that come up, because you're doing multiple things at once you're building rapport, you're showing the other person that you're listening, because I just repeated one or two of the things that you just said. But most human beings have this, when they hear that being said back to them with deference, they want to expand and use other words and start talking more and, you know, a good listener listens it while other people talk. And sometimes it's better, to encourage people to talk more, because you're building rapport. You're, you're building trust, and when they let their guard down, they're more apt to tell you things that they normally wouldn't have told you when they first walked in. Because they're expecting every used car salesman say you hear buy a car today, or they've been beaten by whatever you were saying earlier. You know, you're kind of anticipating this being a sleazy kind of situation because it's a salesman. Well, I mean, first dates are similar to I The way I see it, because I can be very, I can talk I can talk about myself, whatever I do it a lot my own ass all the time. Not narcissistic to self absorbed. But I'm saying like, there is a difference. But I'm saying that I noticed like any date for the first first time you're going out with with someone you know, it's very similar to me because I'm in my head. I'm I don't try to just

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my issues trying to be funny, too funny, or try to entertain too much or what? Oh, don't be too funny, Lord. Oh, no word appear pants. We know it's pushing rope. Because the more I try to do it, the less successful I'll be. Right. Especially like on this show. And so the more it's Same, same in like a sales thing to

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me all this stuff. Sorry, cuz Yeah, you got are you talking? Yeah. I'm just saying like, it's better to ask questions and be curious, right? Yes. Curiosity is awesome.

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Yeah, no, I found myself in that position

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at the bar the other night, and I'm like, Oh, I should

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think of some questions that I also don't care about the answers.

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I just kind of trailed off, because he didn't care about the situation, right. Like you're

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just the expected because the desired outcome is not worth the effort. Yeah, the cost benefit of doing it about a question yeah, cuz you're like, in that was straight up what it was, I was like, right, you can keep talking I guess. But

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I guess I think it expected results or desired results. Or, you know, what could potentially happen percentage wise, too, right? Definitely. What I was talking about, I was running the percentages. I was running the numbers in my head. You were but you're not you're not doing it like rain, man. You're just you know, I was I threw a bunch of cards in the ground. I was like,

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does not pick those up, bitch. And she's like, I'm leaving. Like, god damn it. Yeah, that didn't work. Right. Um, but yeah, I think what so mirroring, right. I don't I don't know if we got to what you were saying about that. It's just kind of it's what do you think it is when you're talking to someone in any we definitely talked to he Keith explained. Okay. Maybe I missed that. We're paying attention. We got a lot of irons. You missed that. He Yes. Yes. He wasn't paying attention. Straight up. I was here. I was here. He said how about mirroring and then he went on to talk about I didn't know if he had more, more of that definition or more of the tactics. How about that? Okay, mirroring later when your waiter when you rewind the show, we just did it there twice. And when I did it, you just kept talking, talking? Yes. Yes. So what you're doing is you're just repeating 123

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ish words are when you get real good at it the important word. But the key to it if you like that, is that sometimes Yeah. Constantly. Oh, Eric, it's constantly like this, what he does.

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And, and so it's doing two things at once it's building rapport. And it's your you're going into their kind of subconscious to help trigger a gut instinct and intuition.

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But you're kind of connecting their thoughts, and it's allowing them to speak more. And when you let your guard down, you start telling your truth, you know, what's on your mind, then at the end of the day, that's I want to help them I want to know what's on their mind. Sometimes people just need help, because they've been battered by used car salesmen and creepy guys at the bars and all types of podcasters Yep, and three, baby.

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These will be some of the skill sets to help kind of walk your way through that. So you can ultimately help whoever you're trying to collaborate with.

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What other tactics I like, I love knowing the names of these things like it's Yeah, so kind of keep it I don't know are mirroring, mirroring, labeling.

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Accusations audit, there's no way you can google it's like the FBI, or something they call.

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But Gary, all neuroscience based stuff Harvard at Quantico rewrote the book on negotiation, based on the skill sets pretty, pretty fascinating stuff.

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He's looking it up. Earlier on Keith, he had the definition of the word. I spelled a reprise pulled up.

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I was

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like, Oh, I'm gonna get key. So good. No, no, he's not even close. I'm trying to pay attention. And I'm like, I'm like, What is he looking at? I know.

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That looked bad over here, but glad you brought it up. Yes. Oh, I wasn't gonna look at that. Yes. And the show. I wasn't gonna let that go. Yeah, um, yes, I think myself. Thank you. Yeah. I

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need you. But yeah, yes. And what's uh, I guess what other sales kind of tips can you give anybody listening that? Look, I I read that Harvard Business Review case a long time ago that everybody's a salesman, no matter if you're actually an outside sales inside sales, or your middle management, you're selling an idea to your boss, your your middle management, and you're selling it down to your, your employees, you're delegating your subordinates, I should say, You're delegating to so everybody's a salesman, once I read that it made sales less icky.

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I feel like you're, you're getting into the very, you're getting into varsity level stuff here. As far as getting better, which is cool. You're continuously improving your skill set. What are some tips you can tell people, you know, that are doing that side hustle that have to do sales and hate it? Right? I don't cross a lot of people that are doing their own thing on the side. Yeah, but the part they hate the most is the hard sales or like, closing a deal or any of that. And so any pragmatic tips would be great.

33:08

Ah, and thank you for asking me, I, I started this business in 2003, with my brother and father. And for the last like, three, I kind of felt like I was falling into a rut, you know, I knew our industry, and knew our product went vertical, but I just kind of go through the motions. And when I came across this, it changed everything for me. It reinvigorated me. And you know,

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I always knew there was more, I just didn't know what it was. And I thought I could just, you know,

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wild people will value proposition and you know, always pitching them our product, and why work better. And I would say the most beneficial thing that I've really learned over the last year and a half was not only how to be a better listener, but then what I'm actually listening for. So I'm not, you know, it's I know, it's real cliche to say be a better listener, but I'm actually listening for one or two nuggets of gold that I'm going to highlight and, and suddenly innocuously have the customer expand upon, and that I'm going to offer solutions in a manner that they're going to tell me and they're going to leave, they're going, I don't know what just happened, but that was one of the best experiences I've ever had. And I would definitely do business with that person again.

34:29

And so, that all started with just listening, listening, and then what am I listening for? I'm listening for emotion. You know, there's, they say there's three different types of people. a caveman has a fight, flight or mate, and translates that today would be like an assertive, aggressive person, an analytical person. And then you know, like the friend oriented person. And if you really look at all the different types of customers, everybody really boils down into those three buckets and depending on what

35:00

animalistic traits you have there, there are certain of those skill sets the FBI has that gravitate more towards one versus the other, like the mirroring is something to be used with an aggressive assertive person because they like to talk.

35:17

What's most important to an aggressive assertive, which is my natural born type is knowing that people listen to what I had to say that's the most important. And so when you can recognize that when you're talking to a prospect,

35:31

I'm directing a certain skill sets

35:35

with the appropriate subtype, you know, the fight flight, or make friends, the aggressive sort of analytical, it really opens the doors to them, telling you what they really want. And just getting to the point lot quicker, saves time, saves a lot of time, by listening, instead of me just jamming down all the information and, and showing how knowledgeable I am and all the awards in our manufacturing, and

36:04

actually just quicker to hurry up and listen, and then point out a few of those things. And then boom, we can get to doing business, it's actually a lot faster. Well, it's interesting, like that. So being a good listener, I would say would probably be the best thing. But then listening for something in particular, you know, if your guts telling you something, that's what you want to act on, because your gut is triggered by your, your intuition, your subconscious. So interesting fact that I was reading that you know how much information your conscious mind brings in per second. They study they said, If you close your eyes, open your eyes for one second, you bring in 40 points of data per second. Your subconscious, they says in the neighborhood of like 30 million per second, because you got the depths the sizes, the sounds, yes. That's how we breathe, we don't even think about it. We're just subconsciously doing it. So when you do some of these labels, or mirrors or some of these other skill sets,

37:03

you're triggering their intuition. You know, they're, and it's throwing it down to their gut saying, I don't know, but I'm kind of on the fence. But this just feels right. You know, we've all had that. It just feels right. Where does that come from? It comes from your intuition, and your your subconscious mind. And if you can use these skill sets, it helps drop all that stuff into their subconscious mind. Hopefully triggering that gut instinct to say, wow, I need to go on this podcast to these two that can brilliant. I don't know what it is. But the way they talk to me is brilliant. I like that. Yeah, yeah.

37:41

Yeah, I'm really brought a

37:44

lot of steam in there. Come on anytime. But

37:48

yeah, I had, here's another one. Here's another one. When you're likable,

37:54

you're six times more likely to do a deal. So if if I can just be if the customer will likely they're six times more likely to do business when they just being likable. So there's another thing about copper, you know, they're six times more likely to do business with me if they like me. And I don't have to change my position on anything. Other than being likable.

38:17

Yeah, now what for us to know, we really find ourselves hanging out with clients, like just, you know, that they wanted to be around us, you know, that sort of thing. It was a nice bonus. Yeah, I was looking at it, can we? Can we hang with them? If we had to do an overnight stress ballroom session bike, be that kind of,

38:38

you know, almost business colleague, friend, because they're not hiring us full time. We're coming in and kind of working with them collaborating with them quickly. And then they got to do a bunch of stuff. So if they, if our phone rings to them to ask them a question, and they go, Oh, yeah, they're hiring us. That's bad. You know, and you never want to be that it. You know, you can just really be polite and listen a lot of the time. But also,

39:06

you know, it's a lot of those other subconscious things as well, like you're talking about just, I was telling you, I've remember to smile before I go on stage, like, while you're doing jokes, or you have resting bitchface I know, people think that, you know, not having a good time while I'm telling jokes, and I've noticed, like that little thing. Changes set for me. dramatically. Yeah. Wow, that's brilliant. That is so true, that in that same study, they said, just the smiling is wired to these mirror neurons that make you 31% smarter, just by smiling. It's like what a hack that is. Yeah. 31% If you were to go to the casino, and I told you, if you just smile, you're gonna have a 35% more chance of what I mean you smile every time there's so much stuff that it's if you just do it, just smile. Just do it first. If you feel happier, and if you did,

40:00

Action coming first leads to the result that you want, if that makes its momentum creates itself. Does that make sense? How about like action comes first and then momentum? Does that make sense? Well, if you're not having a good time, they're not having a good time. It's kind of a theory a way to mess up.

40:19

No, like, No, I just kept it. Well, I'm given something to take away on a cocktail. Yeah, I just did. Yeah. And then you shit on it. Yeah, it's the same. We're saying the same thing, man. No, uh,

40:30

but yeah.

40:32

This was interesting, man. We got to cut it off pretty soon. But any other tips? You got? sales tips? Otherwise, I was always just, I was in the camp of like, I had a boss that told me when you do. I was in the Salon Suite business, meeting a lot hairstyles. And he's like, just just ask him one question. They will talk for the whole hour. And that's the profile of stylists. Because there, they absorb everybody else's crazy, right? They're trying to start their own salon to get out of salon drama from the previous place. It's not to make more money, which I thought it was. But he goes, here's what I want you to do, though, I want you to get these 10 pieces of information out of that conversation. So it was almost like a game. And he's like, if you can get social security number, mother's maiden name, no date of birth, all that he's like, if you can get what you know, what their previous salon charge, what kind of setup they had, if they sell retail, if they do this, if they do these five things to

41:27

you know, if they have friends that are frustrated as well, that's going to help our sales, it's gonna make your life easier. Are they hot? That would be that's trouble. Because it's like,

41:38

there's a lot of women in one roof. And it was B, I'd be the only dude in there a lot of the time say nice. Yeah. No, I was married at the time and never never strayed. But I'm saying it was a matter now. It's

41:51

all right. It's all. It's all for night. Now. I never, I never been, I never compromise my morals on that. A good man. Going to call back from the first episode, you're talking about character and all that Me too. For the record, I guess. Hashtag Yeah, just miserably don't get asked for a while. So that thing of like, I'm helping someone, um, I have an agency, they hired me to help them with their business development style. I'm going through each meeting. And I was talking to them about that, like, you want to come away with that meeting, and have some information to be able to help with that proposal. Now yours is a little bit different. Because you might have more people in the scenario giving sound more retail than it is like a big contract to deal but same thing goes. Even when you're meeting them in the parking lot to walk them in those little things matter. You know, everywhere. Any of these things work only when you're talking to humans really doesn't matter what you're selling.

42:48

If you ask I want and I need your negotiation, these skills will work. Yeah. Right on. Well, thanks for coming on again. And yeah, yeah, man. Do it again. A slow Let's die fun. All right. All right, guys, my shower door.com for everybody out there. Thanks for coming on, man. Thank you guys. Have a great night.