#175: How To Finally Get That Documentary Out Of Your Head, Onto Film, and Into The Cannes Film Festival Like Sacha Baron Cohen In Borat
0:00
What about my sweat?
Law Smith
0:20
We didn't see the documentary. We are mermaids. We're sitting here with director David Maury. Maury. Maury Maury. Yeah. I can't like the heel. And producer, Renee. Oh, gotcha. Good. I fucked it up. Why don't even try I should have just said David internet couple Spanish classes will get you there. It'll be
0:41
it'll be in the show notes.
Law Smith
0:42
I can't read English out loud. I this is why I do stand up I can't like the big thing I have a problem with is reading something out loud in front of people I don't know why always been that way. So but I can go up and do an hour stand up.
0:56
Not great. Same an audition.
Law Smith
1:00
Auditions even worse, because it's just it was the last thing we did was with friend of the program, and he runs a podcast come out of here called nerd wars is Andy signal. And we met him. He was trying to get ahold of some type of guys that are in the comedy universe and asked us to audition for this thing for one of their clients. It was worse because it's Eric and myself and him. We just met this guy. Really cool. We all got along. And then he's like, you guys want an audition? Still? It's like
Law Smith
1:28
Eric wants to
2
Speaker 2
1:29
Yeah, and then we'll then he was like, do you want to leave the room? Or she was like, Nope, I understand bro. I
Law Smith
1:35
even got to see him do his and I still couldn't.
Law Smith
1:39
Because I'm already thinking I'm already in that zone thinking about how I'm going to fuck up and then you fuck up worse, right? So there's some weird I got some block with that.
1:49
In Spanish next time.
Law Smith
1:51
I'm a great I'm gonna be a green guy. I just I thought I have a romantic version of myself. I moved to Costa Rica and I learned a bunch of languages
2
Speaker 2
1:59
in the future. You're right you don't tell us the women that bars well? Yeah,
1
Speaker 1
2:03
I do. But I don't know they're not part of it. Okay.
2:08
You will be there but I'll be enjoying myself
Law Smith
2:10
by bars. You mean to myself out loud right? Yes. I don't go out. Yes work. Hang out with the kids. Leave things behind the glass to john paul. from Sam Pontiac and Joseph or associate producer that wrangle these guys out of the gospel International Film Festival in Tampa. Right in our neighborhood. Be honest. Was he was the annoying was he did you kill mermaid?
2:37
To john drunk to notice anything? Okay, good.
2:39
So you're doing Good job, guys.
2:42
I got me to my way into a
Law Smith
2:44
man. That's That's great, buddy. Yeah, I like it.
Law Smith
2:46
I like your heads,
Law Smith
2:48
plucking them. So tell us about we are mermaids. What's it about? And you know, and then I want to get into kind of like, the whole business side of it. I guess the the sweat equity you put into it?
3
Speaker 3
3:01
Well, it's about it's about the people of wiki watching springs. It's not just about the park. Which have you been? Oh, yeah.
Law Smith
3:10
Yep. grew up here. Yeah, we're the rare people that grew I actually did as well. Yeah.
3
Speaker 3
3:15
So I left in 2006, to go to film school. And I live in New York now. And I always just kind of wanted to go back and do a film about it. Because nobody has. And so it's about the park. And it's about the people out of the park and you know, talks about the history. And you know, how was a big, successful roadside attraction until Disney came and kind of ruin that for everyone. And it's the last remaining roadside attraction. And the this kind of effect that it has on the performers, who get to go into the space that seems to suspend reality. So any sort of physical limitation, 10 time doesn't exist in there. And once they leave, they have the story gotta come back there haunted by dreams of swimming. So there's this huge urge for all of them to come back to the water. So you kind of see that.
2
Speaker 2
4:11
I didn't think about that. Yes. I mean, I actually went there when we brought our daughter and we were going to go see the mermaid show. And they're like, today's the 50th anniversary, and they brought back the women who were like the original Mermaid, yeah, came out and did the mermaid show, in their big bathing suits.
3
Speaker 3
4:30
And it features them sweet. Okay, so it shows that it features them and tells their story about how they their urge to come back and what they do in order to just get into the water and how they still perform there, you know, in their late 50s ones turning at this year, and they still can do underwater flips 30 feet surfaces
2
Speaker 2
4:52
for so and that's just for people who don't know, it's a show where you know, I've been put on tails and they get in and how are they breathing
Law Smith
4:59
tonight an hour north of Tampa, by the way so yeah, so it's it is like it's it's kind of a destination ish, but it is a roadside attraction at the same it's more of like, you're passing through the west coast of Florida. driving up there. So for those not familiar with the kind of we have a lot of people outside of Florida never been here. Yeah. So try always try to
2
Speaker 2
5:21
19 which is a big used to be the main thoroughfare Yeah,
3
Speaker 3
5:24
it was literally way from the north to Miami. So it was just kind of like this middle ground where people would stop and
Law Smith
5:31
think about what does it say we're at 66. Like how that like that had some like, that was an old school. Sung about kind of highway. us that teens like that just not famous. I'm just saying like, if you've ever if you've ever been
5:47
on air, both roads there they
Law Smith
5:49
absolutely and most at this point, yeah, they're they're usable. But it's not like it's not the interstate or freeway or whatever they
3
Speaker 3
5:55
call anyways. But anyway, how did they breathe, they breathe through hoses. A it's it was created on day one, basically, it's a compressed air that goes through a long tube, they actually look like upside down marionettes, because they're all these cords hanging right, which is the tube and they adjust the level that of air that comes out of it. So it blows out is very strong. And it's very loud
4
Speaker 4
6:21
as a whole technique, and yeah, it was created by a diver that didn't want to sorry. Yeah, it was created by a diver. So he had, he just didn't want all this equipment behind him. And he thought it would just be more you know, beautiful this woman
3
Speaker 3
6:36
was he was a Navy SEAL or something like that. I should know this because they made the movie.
Law Smith
6:42
I would assume something like that he someone who's running that has to be like the guy that's like, Oh, I'm running this. I gotta jump in whenever I gotta jump in and take care of things. Yeah, I'm navy seals. Pretty big bad.
3
Speaker 3
6:55
Not maybe not a navy seal. He's something like that. I'm drawing a blank
7:00
water if
Law Smith
7:00
it's that old and he's a male that opened it. I'm guessing it was in the military at some point. Yeah.
7:07
It was a term I want to say a frog.
7:09
The frog me. Oh, yeah.
2
Speaker 2
7:10
before they even had the navy seals. Okay, sure. So listen, guys,
1
Speaker 1
7:15
but that's it. That's still a term. Sometimes they refer to Navy SEALs now is frogman.
3
Speaker 3
7:20
Okay, pretty. Let's go ahead and just assume that's what it was. For the time being? He's
Law Smith
7:25
a badass. How about that. He's got all four of us. He was a man. Yeah.
3
Speaker 3
7:29
Just watch documentary for nothing. But to find out what he was in the in the 40. Yeah.
3
Speaker 3
7:36
But yeah, so he created a system where you can breathe without the use of tanks and all that impressive material that scuba divers were and and they never changed it. They still use it today.
2
Speaker 2
7:47
Are they okay? So they're swimming around. They don't have the tubes on them. Right? They go down and they get it. They'll try to have Yeah, okay. So it's trying to visualize it.
7:56
So they'll,
3
Speaker 3
7:58
they'll take a breath of the host will house it away. And they'll do a couple flips. And then they'll go back down and get it. There's somebody in the audio booth next door. On the side of the outside of the theater who you can talk to the mermaids through the speakers in the water, they communicate and be like, hey, Stacy, the the hoses to the left.
4
Speaker 4
8:18
I think that was a very important part of the film to like, filming in there, which is an underwater theater, and just experiencing how they talk to each other through a mic. And you know, when you when you are in a pool and you're trying to listen to music or something outside of the pool, it's kind of wobbly, right? But the way that they have set up this sound system they hear like to the tea every word they're saying
8:44
really, it's really loud. Yeah,
Law Smith
8:46
I have a buddy. We just had a stem cell.
Law Smith
8:51
Director on to talk about that. We're talking about cord blood. My buddy owns the cord blood company, as I mentioned, he he's just doing well. And he used to tell about these underwater speakers in this pool. And we're like, that's this fucking was frivolous bullshit. Yeah. Why would you ever get? It doesn't make any sense. Like, so for the 30 seconds. We might be underwater in your pool. We're not missing anything of the FSU games, like yeah, sure enough. It's pretty awesome.
9:18
Totally
Law Smith
9:18
crow on that. I was like, This is legit. I kind of want to just sit under here all day with a snorkel mask. Yeah.
3
Speaker 3
9:24
Well, he wouldn't. He was talking. I was coming bowling over in my mind why we don't have more speakers and pools. And that was kind of going through the same thought process like well, like for how long do you have to be underwater? You enjoy
Law Smith
9:33
it? It'll make you figure out how to go underwater.
Law Smith
9:38
It becomes the attraction. Yes.
2
Speaker 2
9:40
That would be cool. If you're exercising, though. Sure. That's I mean, I don't like this. I need music. If I'm exercising. If I'm swimming, and I can get some tunes pumped in there that might change it.
4
Speaker 4
9:49
Well, I'm a swimmer. And I've seen like they came up with a pots are
9:53
waterproof. Yeah.
9:56
I'll come up with a different excuse not to do it. But
Law Smith
10:00
my Speedo game is not that
Law Smith
10:03
banana hammock?
Law Smith
10:07
Cheese. But so y'all went into this just kind of I'm always interested in documentary process. Because seems to me, I used to be a huge documentary nerd, like independent movie nerd, because I thought that was a personality and up in like, you know, in college and whatever. But
10:26
like, think you might have been sold to them?
Law Smith
10:29
No, no, I think they know where I'm going with that. There's a there's a certain type
Law Smith
10:32
of guy, right?
Law Smith
10:34
Have you seen this? And obviously,
10:36
that was film school in general, it was Oh, man,
Law Smith
10:39
there's imagine how many people in your class are actually doing it? You know, like, a few. Right? Right. But the other side of them? Are they in the business or they
3
Speaker 3
10:49
know, but that's what that's pretty, you know, those are those most you there's,
Law Smith
10:53
there's a set of those people I'm talking about that I was part of, well, I was a little pretentious. And thought I knew never even really been on a set and kind of only a couple times so that you know that guy in college that's I ever seen those documentaries. I've said, Oh, I see. It's the independent film channel. You know, you don't have that.
11:12
I think that was new to them. I think entering college little bit, still kind of is
Law Smith
11:18
I used to say documentaries are a way for me to learn a lot of stuff because I i 's y'all could see was bad. I can't read so. So this would be I can listen really well. This is why I kind of the podcast junkie for information that way. And I can listen, I can retain a lot of stuff that way. But as far as sitting down and reading, it takes me a long ass time to do it. And documentaries are almost like a cheat code to go. I don't know anything about this subject. I'm going to get into it.
4
Speaker 4
11:46
It's like the Harry Potter movies. You don't have to read the books. He just wants the full thing.
11:50
And there's great way to let go. Yes, you should watch. Yeah,
Law Smith
11:53
I should I should read all seven Bibles. Books, as it happens, all those things. But I'm saying like what I do know about the documentary process. And it'd be kind of fun to do one in here. I thought about what we're doing for work, even though it's super boring, but I think we can make it stylized.
12:13
Well, editing
Law Smith
12:14
is right. Eric's a great editor, john Paul's read editor that we have the tools here to kind of do something, at least, our work, you can't see what we do. So a lot of people just think it's black magic, or we're ripping you off. Because they don't trust the internet services kind of side of stuff. agencies, burn them all that stuff. Anyway, that I want to say you go into a documentary with thinking you're going to feel about one thing. And then you find something else along the way, usually, right? Like you thought, what did you did that happen for you all? Were you, you went into this documentary going? This is kind of the plan. And then you found this through like maybe it's the owner, who's badass. Maybe it's these other storylines. It's It's funny, because I'm to fruition
4
Speaker 4
12:54
the moment that he came up with the idea. He is I understood it.
1
Speaker 1
13:00
So long I read there's a long way to get there. But that's Did
13:03
you read that in your
Law Smith
13:05
this is I'm just making notes to make sure I get back to some of the other stuff. Yeah,
4
Speaker 4
13:08
no. So when he came when he came up with the idea, you know, he just explained what the movies about. But when he first originally said like, this is what I want to do. He had no much not much idea on what specifically and then when he discovered how many different things he could do. You know, it's hard to pick. Yeah, I know,
13:30
I did have.
3
Speaker 3
13:33
I had a general idea, which was not as inspirational or feel good as what it is now. And it was a little in my mind, it came off a little exploiting as well. Because to be honest, like, a lot of the fine lines are, you know, young, single mothers and, you know, and they're not making a ton of money to at the park. So it's interesting to kind of juxtapose the reality. In my mind, I thought it'd be good story to juxtapose harsh realities to this fantasy lifestyle that they're living in real time, came to find out that that's not necessarily the case, a lot of them are young mothers, but they're all really smart. And they're all in school, they all have, like, really supportive family. And you know, so that wasn't that never
14:25
disappointed a little bit,
3
Speaker 3
14:26
know how you're all well, you're happy, they're happy, I'm happy, they're happy. And it does. And I think it also would have painted the park with a very broad stroke and a very, it would have done a disservice to the park, I found out that there was more to it, that that had the effect that I the draw that I was there because of this draw, and I didn't realize it at the time. But then I kept hearing about it and talking about it. And then we found out about the legendary sirens, which is the group of women who performed, you know, 50 years ago, for 45 years ago, 30 years ago. And that was like, pleasant surprise. And I decided that was a good story to have. And then to I you know, parallel that with the current performers, learning how to become mermaids and finding where that bond
15:20
or this
15:21
develops. Yeah, yeah,
Law Smith
15:22
there's that. That's Yeah, there's other stories that you find out. I wonder, do you all have kind of you have to make sure you're not? Man, there's a lot of documentaries out there that have an angle, like, used to be about 20 years ago, you felt like you watch documentaries. They try to keep it as even there's it's documented, right? There's not a single agreement with the audience back in the day, a little bit. Not every documentary, obviously. But there's an implicit agreement that they just present the facts and you can kind of make your own choice. Now, obviously, that's 100% impossible to do. Because you're going to have some confirmation bias along the way. But do you did y'all y'all were have that maybe going into it, that you might have biases that you can't, they're not kind of on the forefront? They're not right there. It's a subconscious thing. Maybe
Law Smith
16:17
we try to keep that in check here. I'll give you a minute to
3
Speaker 3
16:19
think about it. If you want, I think I understood the question. And I kind of that was the biggest challenge of showing it at Gasper Ella, was that a lot of people have a very intimate relationship. personal relationship with the park. Right? So I I can make your memories on that screen. So I you know, was fearful that I would disappoint people, cuz I didn't show it. I didn't go into their minds and show what they thought. Yeah, yeah,
2
Speaker 2
16:49
it's gonna play so that was differently here then it will anywhere else. You know, he and I both have we're we're aware of it. You know, we have our own stories to tell us Let's I mean, are you showing it anywhere else? I haven't this kind of a dead zone is in festivals right now. So I haven't I totally do that.
17:08
First. Yeah.
17:12
I think it all starts up again in like September,
Law Smith
17:14
it would just got over festival season. Yeah,
17:15
me too.
17:18
Um, but
3
Speaker 3
17:19
yeah, I'm gonna try to show it at the Coney Island. I would love to do it there. That's cool because I have a big mermaid fan base.
Law Smith
17:26
Really? Have you found all the pockets in America? mermaid fans?
17:30
Well, the Coney Island or a mermaid prayed is oh
17:32
I don't I don't know it's really
3
Speaker 3
17:34
check it out. It's really it's really bizarre. hedonistic a little bit don't bring the kids don't really know they do bring the kids to it. You
17:42
see what you see things that you should hot dog eating contest is different.
Law Smith
17:46
Like we got the mermaid festival then the hot dog eating contest. Let's not put these on the same weekend. It sounds
3
Speaker 3
17:52
it does sound very kid friendly. The mermaid parade but it's I don't think it is
4
Speaker 4
17:56
it is it's just it's empowering of women. And also you know, it's people with a lot of glitter and body paint very little glitter
Law Smith
18:04
glitter. Is that bridge to get us to like strippers out kind of? Well, he was to my head now.
3
Speaker 3
18:10
They do a lot of clothes comes off. A lot of booze goes in and
18:14
yeah, so it's a good time.
Law Smith
18:16
naked, but not the naked you seek out? It's,
18:19
it's basically.
4
Speaker 4
18:21
But you know, but it is very encouraged. Like it encourages women to like go there and be okay with their bodies. Yeah, feel free and, and, you know, participate in a community act. And they, everyone I mean, I've been to the parade and I've participated like inside. They've called me the What does it seem in?
18:42
The same? Yeah.
4
Speaker 4
18:42
That we are receiving. So we're basically volunteers to help out these mermaids who do like dances and stuff as her parading
18:51
so it's quite it's a lot of fun. Yeah.
Law Smith
18:53
Hey, man, look are gay pride parade comes by this window next Saturday and six days or so. So we're all about it, because we'll probably try to have super gay party in here.
Law Smith
19:09
On the walk right before the episode started, yeah,
2
Speaker 2
19:12
thanks. railroad me into this? Well, you different term and that land you brought up? You brought up banana hammocks and swimming. So
19:20
now? Yeah.
Law Smith
19:24
So as far as the business side of all of this, right, documentaries are great from a production standpoint, in the fact that it literally is sweat equity. In a lot of it. It's a lot of time.
Law Smith
19:37
Dreams is probably the extreme example of that, where it's four years of falling these guys. But for y'all, who was involved or y'all the main to involved did most of it. And kind of just shoestring budget style, and it happen. Yeah, yeah.
3
Speaker 3
19:57
I get the limit. It kind of all birth from the fact that I was just kind of sitting around at my house, and I was like, I have a camera. I have a GoPro. Yeah, I haven't I know how to edit the parks. 20 minutes from my mom's house. So why why wouldn't I do this? Yeah, yeah,
Law Smith
20:13
place to post up if you're here for a couple weeks or months or whatever. So the biggest skills to do it. Yeah.
3
Speaker 3
20:21
And the biggest price, the biggest cost was just the flights. And I kept upgrading the first which was not smart.
20:28
Which is why my budgets bigger than it should have been
20:31
impulsive like us. Yeah, there you go. But it'd be like, I deserve this. Yeah,
20:35
I've been working our producer now
4
Speaker 4
20:39
to say, though, that like, This took three years. Oh, okay. Like, you know, it's not just like, Oh, I took a camera and went down one time. It requires a lot of planning to and permits, you know, especially like seeing the creative process on like, it's not you just go there and film like you have to gain the hearts of, and, you know, the trust of these mermaids. And this is, it survived for a reason, because they are so protective of their, their, their home, their Park, that, you know, he really had to, like, go in there and and she was a little bit, make them fall in love with him and let them trust him enough to let go underwater and film. So you know, if they don't just do that with everybody?
Law Smith
21:18
Sure. Sure. They probably thought you're making fun of them to begin with. I would assume
3
Speaker 3
21:22
they were very cognizant of that. Yeah, you're very, that's why it took a long time. Because there hasn't been there has been a past of reality shows. They did do a reality pilot. Yep. But they ended up not doing it. Because that was back in the day when like reality was just reaching for the lowest common denominator, and it made them look really bad. Hey, I love New
21:43
York. Yeah.
21:44
Well, I love that time.
Law Smith
21:46
I mean, just permitting alone is is paying the deck like in from your side. What?
Law Smith
21:53
What is that? Like?
Law Smith
21:55
We talked about being creative, not in the artsy way. Like, that's important. Don't get me wrong. But we talked about creative in this office, like the ability to create solutions. And that's all y'all are doing every day, right? It's thrown a new thing. You're like, this mermaid won't talk to us fo won't talk to us about being a legendary mermaid. How do we get her to do it? We got to find some kind of connection. So she'll kind of let our guard down a little bit and go, Hey, we're not your final cut or figure out a way to negotiate in a weird way. On the permitting side. I'm sure that was an easy to Florida's, but Florida is a weird state. So there's always going to be some weird hiccups. Do you have any issues with that?
22:35
No,
4
Speaker 4
22:36
no? Well, no. Because like it, I think like it just started with the conversation. Well, the first thing that they told him when he wanted to start in the film, they said, grab a number.
22:47
Pick a number.
Law Smith
22:48
no joy told me to ask you about permits. So good job there.
3
Speaker 3
22:51
Well, no. Okay. Well, here's the thing. Here's I'll tell you why. But first of all, I would just want to say the park is a tea bag. You later The park is state owned and that they're just like, yeah, you could shoot here time.
Law Smith
23:03
So the easiest permitting of that was Yeah,
3
Speaker 3
23:05
I'm extraordinary lucky on that. But you want to talk to him about permitting, because he works for shows like house International, and all those like house hunting shows on HGTV. So he knows everything about permitting. I know virtually nothing.
4
Speaker 4
23:19
Like this film wasn't like too difficult. But since I do work producing like all these like HGTV shows, that is like a completely different game. Yeah. And I think that is a difference between like, filming a documentary that you are self funding, as opposed to like a network show that you have to get like, all these insurance claims and all this stuff. So it is very different to film, obviously a documentary or a TV show that's on like everyone's TV.
3
Speaker 3
23:46
Yes. Well, no, I didn't have any money. So I did, and they don't, I don't, they didn't think I was serious either. So they just thought I would come shoot for a day and like, they'd never hear from me again. But I came monthly for two years. So
Law Smith
23:59
that I mean, that has to be how they build trust with that community that we have probably pretty guarded.
3
Speaker 3
24:06
It was and it went from the first couple of sheets that I did there. It came from like, okay, you I have to be with you. And if we were filming, and I have to let you in this place. You can't go here. You can't go there. And then finally by like the end of it, I would just like text me back on my way. And they like us the employee entrance and that's
24:24
good. Yeah.
24:26
tail.
24:28
tail.
3
Speaker 3
24:28
know they did. We did. We did slap on a tail though, at one point, just out of curiosity when I was shooting with some of the younger ones.
24:36
And it's terrifying. Yeah,
2
Speaker 2
24:38
it's scary. Can you mean I mean will kick your legs? It's actually
24:42
I mean, it's very heavy, and they fill with water and you forget that. Yeah,
Law Smith
24:45
it's gotta be like snowboarding ish, in a way is kind of shit.
24:53
Exactly the feeling.
2
Speaker 2
24:56
How many hours of footage guys end up with
24:59
22?
2
Speaker 2
25:01
Oh, that's bad. I mean, it sounds like you must have had a good, good plan going. And then I mean, were you?
25:09
I
2
Speaker 2
25:09
don't know. I guess it. I'm just curious. I love to hear. It's like, people don't think about all that. 22 hours of footage when they see a two hour movie, right? Like how hard could
Law Smith
25:21
shoot a lot fat?
2
Speaker 2
25:22
Right? Yeah. Yeah, we've got a seven minute what's that we filmed for an hour,
3
Speaker 3
25:25
I'm, I'm kind of this from the school of thought of the fly on the wall there a sound documentaries. So it was just a lot of nice hanging out in a corner, filming them. And they just had to ignore me a lot of the time. And they don't like ignoring cameras there. So it was very frustrating. But there's just tons of footage of nothingness. Yeah, you have to come through. And I also am able to, I'm also aware of what I shot and how it could lead up to something. So in the moment, I know what I'm going to use. So that was really easy. And then you come back later with interviews and you filled up and then you go back to that and then you try to get the shots to
2
Speaker 2
26:04
round it all. Yeah, I've noticed a lot of directors, they're always you know, in their mind, they're keeping track. Okay. I'm going to do that. And it's not always shared with everybody, you know, just like, okay, just let me figure this out. And I've got it in my mind. Let me do it. And then it comes out. But man, yeah, john Paul's the same way. Like he's always like, I know which shot I got, you know, he knows which one it was which which take it was that sort of thing. It's like,
Law Smith
26:27
you have to be rain, man, dude, like, go
26:29
down. You turn into Rain Man a little bit,
3
Speaker 3
26:31
too. But yeah, there's a shot of a girl who dumped his ducks are head underwater. And then the next shot is hurt the continuation of it, but there's like a year difference between those two. Oh, wow. Yeah. So yeah, yeah,
1
Speaker 1
26:44
you because you got to piece it together somehow.
3
Speaker 3
26:48
And I you and I knew that I wanted it and I knew that what I had wasn't working. So I just had to nothing was directed really in that film, except for maybe one or two scenes. And that was Those were the times
Law Smith
26:59
Hmm. So it is you do an interview style. Are you doing narrative
3
Speaker 3
27:03
is a mix of the interview and and Verity.
Law Smith
27:06
Okay. I don't know. Just like fly on the wall. Remember? I'm pretty. I'm a smart
27:12
boy. just ended up pretentious.
Law Smith
27:14
No, no, you're not. I
27:16
feel like I'm like, I should know that word and then probably using it wrong.
Law Smith
27:19
No, I don't. Like I don't know. I mean, there's like
27:21
to learn. Yeah,
Law Smith
27:22
I'm finding out every word I've ever said. Is it different now has a different meaning. Like literally like figuratively means literally literally means figuratively. Now, what in the lookup Webster's I know
27:33
what those words mean, though. But what
3
Speaker 3
27:35
it means the opposite now like I don't know like the way languages but I think the vernacular is changing the meaning of Yeah, those words
Law Smith
27:43
I could understand by intent most of the time. Yeah, when you're when you're talking about it, I just was like, shit. So
2
Speaker 2
27:48
do I have to start saying I know I figured in your ground we're using literally the way it's supposed to be used and figuratively the way it's supposed to not going back
27:58
there. No, there is a that's your data way of doing that.
3
Speaker 3
28:00
There's a cultural cultural push back on, on things like that right now where people are really forced
Law Smith
28:07
to but i think it's it's really bad. I don't
2
Speaker 2
28:11
we've got no frame of reference for anything anyway, exactly how problem
Law Smith
28:14
we're, we're not as good communicators, as we think we are. I think all these devices all these all these methods and platforms to communicate as made us fucking way worse. And now we've gone back to the point where emojis are now the universal language. Yeah, seriously, that's that I mean, consider that right? We went from hieroglyphics to this other shit. And then back to hieroglyphics.
28:38
Well, I mean, there were the best way to do it. That's a high laundry guys.
Law Smith
28:41
Not even stone, but I thought that high.
3
Speaker 3
28:44
I want to go back to bridge the gap between mermaids and go. Like when when I listened to this, like, how did we get to this part of the conversation from
28:51
there? Oh,
Law Smith
28:52
definitely. Listen to the show. It might as well be called tangent highway. But the thing is, with all right, so from you got everything in the can the editing process is rough. Because it's excruciating. It's almost your own worst enemy kind of deal where you're, you're like, if I've been looking at this to Hong like it, you know,
29:15
get in that zone. Definitely. And there was
3
Speaker 3
29:20
there's a scene, I finished it. Initially, I finished the first off about a year ago and I took it to the marsh at film at can. And we showed it there and it got good reception. But there was one scene in particular that enrage people, they hated it. And I I loved it. Um, it's a scene where one of the characters is kind of talking to himself in a mirror. So I thought of it is this really like, nice moment of, you know, elections introspection, and like coming to terms with things.
3
Speaker 3
29:54
But it was like it just took people out and it and
2
Speaker 2
29:57
it was it was really doing this. Yeah, this is the thing is people you know, because you see that on a TV show. You're like nobody does Yeah, it's like if it's real that's different.
30:08
Well, he's talking to me he's talking to me the camera through a when a mirror as I got older, they were
Law Smith
30:14
to feel it's cooked like it was set up. Almost
30:17
no, they
3
Speaker 3
30:20
his story isn't like I don't want to ruin anything but whenever his story isn't like a happy ending, I guess per se
30:27
but
3
Speaker 3
30:30
so like, it felt like it was a little bit sadistic on his part, like really just dragging him through it. Like his story was over at one point. So like, ended, but I had this other really long scene that I really, really loved. And it just after I really fought to keep it in there, but we call it shooting the baby. Yeah, killing the baby. So like I had to
30:51
gotta be willing to get rid of all of it. Yeah,
Law Smith
30:53
it's it's tough. What do you decide? You know, here's an influential audience that's given you basically market research. Yeah,
30:59
right on it. That's what festivals really are. Yeah.
Law Smith
31:01
But are they the tastemakers is what you have to ask yourself that, you know, you. Obviously it sounded like they are. But I'm saying like, sometimes I do this for comedy. A lot of the time. There's a lot of stuff where you can talk about on stage where you're like this, so we get a laugh. I don't know if I love it. But it's working. I love this audience in a way. I don't know. It's it's tough to go. I know better. And I'm going to do this this joke. That's a little bit.
31:28
That's a little bit. It's not. It's not like,
31:31
it's not obvious. Yeah, I do the Polish
Law Smith
31:33
truck joke. I want to open a food truck with an anti rape campaign. And everybody gets stuck in the right part. Yeah. So I had to add to it will get stuck on the radio know everybody does because there's zoned out and they don't know who I am. So
31:46
they're raping right now. So
Law Smith
31:48
I mean, it's bad to talk about race. It's anti rate. Yeah. So obviously, I said anti right. So that's what I have to slow down. And I'd say it again. I could we're all anti rape in here. And then. Yeah, yeah. And then if there's no silence, I go right. Or we fucking we don't, we're not down for that. Right. So it kind of wakes everybody up. And then I go, it's a food truck called empanada means nada.
32:12
Do you have this? I don't have headphones on. So it's not the same. You can't hear me. Okay, so it sounds like an empanada? Like, No means no.
Law Smith
32:19
Time to have a food truck.
32:21
And he had to be bilingual for that one. So you see.
Law Smith
32:27
What I'm saying is? I know that's a good joke, because the audience is in the frequency of data over time. I know that's good for stage not so much in a podcast studio. But yeah, but but like, I know, that's a good joke. Even if the crowd isn't super paying attention, or it's a different kind of like, let's call it an old comedy room. If when I go to New York, sometimes I do those. And because I say y'all, I can see it like, Oh, this guy Southern fight this guy. I've seen it. I've heard the feedback outs offstage. Yeah,
32:58
but I'm saying like shirts on helping either.
Law Smith
33:00
What? Well, I were radio show just because you can follow them up. And then doesn't matter if you will. Yeah. So that's easy to do. But I know to like, rodeo.
4
Speaker 4
33:12
So I got it, like complement what you're saying too, though, like editing yourself is like, so hard. And the fact that you know, ideally, we would obviously, you know, would get like a lot of funding and have somebody else edit. You know, your film. We have a sister. Yeah, but we did. But you know, that was hard to find. It was not easy. And how do you give your baby to someone that you don't know, if you trust? So like, and finding the right style? Like I said, looking over their shoulder
3
Speaker 3
33:39
the entire time? Yeah. Sadly, I know. But like with that, with that comment about the people who watch it and like, you gauge the crowd? Like my, my film, school friends love the scene. But they may have been give me lip service. bets and then bias
33:57
there. Yeah.
3
Speaker 3
33:58
And then the, the non the people who didn't go to film school hated it. So there was kind of like this, you know, unwashed masses kind of
Law Smith
34:06
ideology. I had to make a decision, right? Fuck Yeah, I like this, but I don't know. But
3
Speaker 3
34:12
you know, at the end of the day, it's it's not that kind of movie. It was. It's like it was strategically in a bad place. And then, you know, read the room. Like, everybody really just doesn't like it. So
Law Smith
34:22
I had to like, just Oh, yeah. What's the cost benefit? Does it improve it? If the people who like it? Do they really like it so much more? Or the worst thing is being confusing? Or like kind of middle of the road? It doesn't add anything? And like, it only takes away? Yeah. So you have to? That's a hard decision to make. And it sounds like that's a mature decision to make. Yeah,
3
Speaker 3
34:43
I felt really, really proud of myself when I decided to take it out. myself on the back.
34:49
But adult you should Yeah. I think I was pushing for it. Yeah,
34:52
you wanted it out.
34:56
He's unwashed. So
34:57
did you guys
35:00
how I feel about it. You know,
Law Smith
35:01
that's what you
2
Speaker 2
35:03
have to be. Yeah. If you're, if you're dancing around, you know, you don't get anything. The only reason
Law Smith
35:07
we work well together is because there isn't a filter of says like, that's do she thing. We don't care about each other. Right? Yeah.
Law Smith
35:14
It's like an Asperger's office in here. Like, whatever is going on. It's gonna be sad. Yeah. Plus, you're busy. That's the other thing. Everything shorthand, right. You're in a rush. It sounds like you guys probably work. You did this in between gigs. Right? Yeah. Because a lot of people that I like that.
35:31
No, I I just full time. Yeah,
35:33
he did.
Law Smith
35:34
I guess I was, it sounded like he was doing more like, you get picked up to associate producer, producer, whatever. I don't know the titles, necessarily, but like, you're going on this show this show this show, and then flew in to help with this. And then came back out. I was my guess. Did you guys watch the movie? You like it with the audience that's watching the audience cuz
35:56
I didn't count. And it was the worst experience of my. Yeah.
35:58
I mean,
36:00
he didn't want to see it. This time. I've seen it enough. I know me too. And then, you know, also just
3
Speaker 3
36:06
people walk out at festivals. Sure. There's a lot of lot of meetings to do a lot of other screenings and stuff like that. Not so much here. This, this festival isn't as robust as the other ones. But I said it at the count one. And people walked in and out. And it was just like, Tarzan,
36:26
personally. Yeah. And like,
3
Speaker 3
36:26
my friend is a really successful producer in the Netherlands who's showing at Tribeca this year, and she was prepping me for like, people are going to walk out. It's not because they hate it. It's because it's, they have things to do. And I was like, yeah, totally walking out. I never doing this again. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
Law Smith
36:44
like this movie. I focus on the one person with their arms folded in the show. And it's like, Why the fuck do I do that? Yeah. But this is it for them. They don't know. They just went to a comedy club. Yeah.
4
Speaker 4
36:55
But this time, it was it was amazing. Because we, you know, nobody walks out. Well, we also had like the mermaids there. So like, I was so excited. And you know, it's scary, too. Because the people that we film like, are in the theater watching it. So you don't know what they're thinking. And you know, the fact that they're so proud. And they've they've speaks so highly of the movie that they're in means that they're happy with the results. So that's good.
3
Speaker 3
37:21
I did, I didn't take a tie a moment to like, just stand there in the corner at the entrance and just like look at people's faces during parts of the film, and some I could see them visually reacting positively to sign. And, you know, she seems that I wanted to they laughed at stuff they are they cried, I guess. Yeah,
37:39
I think it's important. Yeah.
37:40
It's not easy to do. Yeah,
3
Speaker 3
37:41
I mean that. But then I went back to have another glass of wine.
37:47
He was still going to talk to
Law Smith
37:50
face wasn't facing enough. Yeah,
37:53
she wasn't nodding interestingly enough of that scene.
Law Smith
37:56
Right, right. Yeah. What you're not going to get extreme reactions on documentary, probably because it is a slow burn as an audience member lot of ways. Yeah. You're going in expectation of watching a documentary isn't like, Def Jam comedy audience. Yeah, it's like, there's gonna be people rolling out of the seat.
3
Speaker 3
38:12
It's a certain kind of person who goes documentaries and watches them. Like, if you don't like documentaries, like, you're not gonna like it, I guess. But
38:21
those are the walker routers. Yeah.
3
Speaker 3
38:22
And they're hard to watch sometimes is the
Law Smith
38:26
key now to get on Netflix to get that exposure. Is this it?
Law Smith
38:32
on the business side of this, I think Netflix likes documentaries and comedy specials, because they're cheap to produce. So does that cost gets passed on when they pick it up?
Law Smith
38:43
Is that is that the ultimate now? I mean, there's so many places where it can
38:48
go, I guess? Um, yeah, no, I don't know yet.
Law Smith
38:52
I guess Do you want it to be found more than
38:55
Well, this point is made. So yeah.
Law Smith
38:58
We talked about like SEO, you want to be found at the
3
Speaker 3
39:01
end of this at the end of the whole process. I wanted to like I would love for it to just like find all my Netflix. I hear they're very aggressive. And like, it's you can't really like barter with them. Yeah,
Law Smith
39:11
they did take the mark there. Yeah, that's why I use that kind of SEO kind of comparison. Because SEO is all Google based. Netflix basically controls the streaming market, essentially. Yeah, they won't forever because it sounds like they're all breaking up.
3
Speaker 3
39:26
It's coming. It's becoming like a cable network now, except for its own streaming,
4
Speaker 4
39:30
perhaps. So there are a lot of platforms these days, like Hulu and Amazon is getting into that too. So I feel like they all want content.
39:37
They all original content.
3
Speaker 3
39:39
I would like to actually sell it to airlines first call. Yeah,
2
Speaker 2
39:45
great. That's a good business move. Yeah, I like that. It's some of the things you got to think about like where can you be unique? Yeah,
3
Speaker 3
39:52
so I think it would like do really well on you know, flights on delta to Florida people are looking for things to do
Law Smith
39:59
we're just I'll just on any flight really like because you're kind of those TVs in the back of the god damn it. I was on a flight from the other day is like so you know the fucking guy behind you. It doesn't know how to use the touchscreen. Like bright it's not it's not God damn keyboard like you don't have to go blow. Yeah, and like push it so aggressively. It's like racking my seat. Yeah,
3
Speaker 3
40:21
that was me on the flight from that from Italy for like eight hours. This woman's like punching the back of like, like I
40:29
was having a conversation about Yeah,
Law Smith
40:31
I'm not even hit the touchscreen. I'm just talking. My hands fly. I
3
Speaker 3
40:35
couldn't tell she was mad. I didn't want to make a scene. You can tell we're going to have eight hours lady
Law Smith
40:41
is the wine on this whole bottle of wine. But like that, that thing that's really smart. You're thinking about it in that context, I think where it's like, where you're going to go for the bigger stuff like Netflix, Hulu, whatever it is. But if you're like hey maybe there's this like niche way to get it to kinda people were on a flight and some movies are you have to pay for on those usually summer like, you can just watch this documentary for free. That's, that's really smart. That's really savvy thing. Is there any other kind of things you all are trying to get it in, get it around, I
3
Speaker 3
41:14
want to just do a little bit more festivals, maybe like one or two more festivals just to get more feedback. And I would like to see what the non Florida people think people who saw in France, like that people who see it in New York, they like they feel compelled to come down and experience the park. Now they think it's a really interesting story.
41:34
So this might be your toughest audience.
41:37
And that's what I think, you know,
4
Speaker 4
41:38
but it really is so interesting to see like, people here like they have heard a little bit of what a mermaid is, when you explain what this movies about to someone. They're like, wait, somebody actually puts a tail and pretend other mermaid they think it's nuts. Right? The whole point is that these people have hearts and dreams and they're the sweetest people you will ever meet. And their storylines. You know we put in the movie it's you know, they they really transcend through screen. And you know, you can be inspired to be a better person. So you should watch them.
3
Speaker 3
42:09
Talking about I'm on the business side of it. Like getting money for documentaries is very hard, I'm sure and they don't sell that their masters.
Law Smith
42:18
I look at it like the old curmudgeon it's all about ROI. You know, what's the ROI on this? I have money in what am I going to get out of it? And what's the risk? Yeah, mitigated risk on every project.
3
Speaker 3
42:29
And if somebody doesn't die, they don't want to pay for it. So like he has to be like a really intense story and this this isn't an interesting so a lot of people are just like it's like it's a profile piece in in part and so that that like
Law Smith
42:43
like this one guy in the mirror might kill him. So
42:47
check back
42:47
theater, I can push them in the direction.
3
Speaker 3
42:51
If you watch document, you'll see that this guy loves life and he's not he would never do anything.
Law Smith
42:56
totally kidding. We got it out here. Guys have more
43:00
stuff to do, I think but thanks for coming by. Thanks, guys. Really appreciate
43:05
it. We'll put the links
43:06
in the podcast episode description.
Law Smith
43:09
Donate to the documentary.
43:14
Get out there and thanks for coming on a pod com
